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Turbo Sliders Feature Requests

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Ande

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PostTue Jul 26, 2005 1:14 pm

Jazzyclub wrote:X ANDE: we can know what feats are in your todo list?


Pretty much everything that has been said here or in other places is there but unfortunately, most of may not be implemented soon if ever. The next bigger thing that *may* be implemented might be some kind of AI support. I have done some preliminary work already but there is lots of work left.
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Anthony

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PostTue Jul 26, 2005 1:33 pm

... :shock:

Playing against computers?! That sounds... Awesome! :D Will there be the option of having AI's on a server as well?
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Fastest Lap Times (EasySlider; 7/28/05):
Minileap: 10.054 Working On: 9.900
Sandslid: 17.415 Working On: 17.200
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Ande

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PostTue Jul 26, 2005 3:31 pm

Anthony wrote:Playing against computers?! That sounds... Awesome! :D Will there be the option of having AI's on a server as well?


Yes, if AI players will get implemented, they will most probably available for servers, too.
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xzeal

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PostTue Jul 26, 2005 3:43 pm

Ande wrote:
Anthony wrote:Playing against computers?! That sounds... Awesome! :D Will there be the option of having AI's on a server as well?


Yes, if AI players will get implemented, they will most probably available for servers, too.


Don't forget to add the possibility to race against a recording ;)
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road_oktane

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PostThu Jul 28, 2005 3:46 am

[quote="xzeal"][quote="Ande"][quote="Anthony"]
Playing against computers?! That sounds... Awesome! :D Will there be the option of having AI's on a server as well?[/quote]

Yes, if AI players will get implemented, they will most probably available for servers, too.[/quote]

Don't forget to add the possibility to race against a recording ;)[/quote]
and the pit stop system too :D
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Ande

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PostThu Jul 28, 2005 6:58 am

Racing against a recording would be a totally new game mode and I am not sure how much work it would be. Don't kill me if it is not in the next version :).

Pit stop system would probably mean altering network protocol which would mean that downwards compatibility would be broken. But maybe in 1.2 or if that is to come one day :).
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mandeagle

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PostThu Jul 28, 2005 4:36 pm

my idea is instead of pro mode, you could introduce a "rook" mode, because when you are getting started in the game you dont know how to play, do all the tracks are gonna be disabled, so, my idea is the deal:

is like the pro mode, but instead of diseable, make who is 1 (or more) laps behind you run in ghost mode, then the person dont get disabled, and dont get in the way of the firsts positions, is good idea for races very long, and to the people starting get used to run online

but that ghost is only who is at least 1 lap behind you, the othes run in normal mode
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dby

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PostThu Jul 28, 2005 6:34 pm

Good idea!

Could a disabled driver compete in the ranks against others who got disabled? The ones disabled first would have some advantage, so it' might not be a good idea. Any lap times after that could have a D for disabled or something.
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Jazzyclub

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PostThu Jul 28, 2005 6:48 pm

for me a good idea to know who are noob is in slider.ini.....
in slider.ini you can read this row: TimesUsed 250
to know who are noob you can add a row like "timesusedonline xxx", in this way you can know how many hours this player have played to TS and in some server add a feat for a like-ghost system.

PS: no? yes? maybe? lol!
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mandeagle

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PostFri Jul 29, 2005 3:40 pm

dby wrote:Good idea!

Could a disabled driver compete in the ranks against others who got disabled? The ones disabled first would have some advantage, so it' might not be a good idea. Any lap times after that could have a D for disabled or something.


i was thinking about it, the "ghosts" would be able to make records , only fastest laps, and the idea of "d" or "g" after the time is no bad

of course this wouldnt be a fix game mode, only to races very longs, like tsb f1 2005
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Mouse

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PostTue Aug 23, 2005 1:19 am

i have a great idea, mabye a small box in the top corner of the screen that tells your position and the lap number. i cant tell you the amount of times i have checked to see where i was with tab stats and end up in the grass or wall. there is really no time to look for your name in tab stats without making a mistake. could this be done for 1.0.6?

example -

5th
Lap 12
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Ande

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PostTue Aug 23, 2005 7:33 am

Mouse wrote:i have a great idea, mabye a small box in the top corner of the screen that tells your position and the lap number.


That might be a good idea but there is already beginning to be lots of
stuff in the corners (at least if stats, record and debug are on). Have you tried using TAB for that purpose? Press it once and you see how many laps you have driven, and twice to see the list of all players in latest positions.
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Mike Nike

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PostTue Aug 23, 2005 1:38 pm

I am sure, Mouse did...

The problem is:
In long races, when there are no long straights - you have really no time to watch the stats (TABstats or stats at the bottom).

Something like switchable stats in top of a car would be nice.
All cars would have its position (and maybe driven lapnumber) over their cars...

And Or maybe even a switchable option, which shows personal stats after each laps, would be nice.
Like:
top of the car - 0.0-1.0 seconds after crossing the startline: <position> | <lap>
top of the car - 1.0-2.0 seconds after crossing the startline: <last laptime>

In these cases, like Mouse means, less mistakes will be caused by looking at the stats.

Well, and just to remember - blue flags or something like that could appear when the right situation is there...
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Mouse

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PostTue Aug 23, 2005 7:02 pm

yes, it is really hard to try to find your name in the list without crashing. i do like mike's idea of having the position and lap number over the car..

another idea - mabye after passing the start/finish line, in the top left corner, it could say your position and lap number, where the chat is, mabye in blue?

mabye it could tell your position in the main black box at the bottom of the screen, next to the track records?

final idea - in the black box, next to players names is their current lap time, could it be switched to the players position and what lap thay are on? i mean switched in the menu, not permanently. mabye just by pressing F11 or something could switch this.

there are many ways this could be done, argg tab stats are too hard to use, especially in endurance races.

also ande, if you ever need 1.0.6 feature testing, i would be more than happy to test. i have lots of free time. :D
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Ande

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PostTue Aug 23, 2005 7:47 pm

Those ideas are all good, but I don't think they will make it in 1.0.6. Implementing AI bots is taking so much time that if I add lots of other things, it will never get released :). When the AI is finished, I may test them in some US servers so that players can play against AI before the game itself is released. Unfortunately, it is lots of work to make AI driving lines for each track and each car...
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Mouse

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PostTue Aug 23, 2005 9:24 pm

AI sounds good, be nice to have when servers are all empty, go and have endurance races with the computer cars! hehe

but you said you have to make the driving lines for each track? does that mean AI can only be used on the default tracks?
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dby

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PostTue Aug 23, 2005 10:08 pm

So far most things in this game you can edit with the notepad. I'm pretty sure one can add AI driving lines to any track... but will there be a tool for this, in the track editor perhaps?
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Ande

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PostWed Aug 24, 2005 8:09 am

dby wrote:So far most things in this game you can edit with the notepad. I'm pretty sure one can add AI driving lines to any track... but will there be a tool for this, in the track editor perhaps?


Lap files will be plain-text files (or zipped text files) but creating them manually is not recommended. How I have been making the lines now is using a new command line parameter (sliders.exe -airecord 1) and drive the track alone. This way, the game saves all laps to a text file. Unfortunately, the AI algorithm is not perfect and the lines must not go too near obstacles or the AI drivers will frequently crash. Lines must be tested (there is a new option -lapdebug 1 which helps) and bad laps removed from the text file. This is all quite complex and time consuming but it is not something everyone needs to do...
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Mouse

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PostWed Aug 24, 2005 3:51 pm

sounds good! but i have 1 more question about it, will you be able to race AI in ghost mode only? or will i be able to smack those cars in the grass!?! hehe, sometimes i need to get my anger out you know? :twisted: lol keep up the good work ande! :D
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Ande

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PostWed Aug 24, 2005 5:31 pm

Yes you can race in full contact races :).
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dby

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PostWed Aug 24, 2005 6:51 pm

How long does it take to make a decent lap file, roughly? It's also quite time consuming to make a good track, so it might be worth the extra effort.

Will we be able to start a server that fills any empty slots with AI drivers?

Sorry, just curious. :)
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Hengari

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PostWed Aug 24, 2005 9:47 pm

Heh, AI drivers.
That AI driving lines -education sounds clever but a lot of work. If there were a true AI behind those AI drivers would be too good :) Some human error to the lines is good.

Train your own AI driver and let it compete against others' AI drivers :)
oldschool slider <3 | Hengari @ Quakenet/IRCnet
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mandeagle

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PostThu Aug 25, 2005 12:03 am

Hengari wrote:Heh, AI drivers.
That AI driving lines -education sounds clever but a lot of work. If there were a true AI behind those AI drivers would be too good :) Some human error to the lines is good.

Train your own AI driver and let it compete against others' AI drivers :)


lol, would be funny, but i guess that wont happen
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Ande

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PostThu Aug 25, 2005 7:44 am

Time to make AI laps depends much on which car you are using and how good a driver you are. It also helps to learn to use the command line options to debug the laps. Unfortunately, if you make a perfect lap where you go very near all obstacles, AI wil probably hit them often. AI can't know which side of the line it should take if it does not manage to stay precisely on the line (as it often won't). With cars like Antislider, this is not such a big problem but it is more time consuming to make good Slider and Speeder laps. You need to first drive a set of laps and then to check that the laps work (the fastest way is to use new command line option which runs 20 AI cars at super speed with all laps and writes debug on collisions). So, let's say the time can vary from 10 minutes to more than an hour per car.

And I'm afraid the problem is not that AI players would be too perfect :).
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Mike Nike

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AI driver problems & AI support for X-Bowl and PunaBall.

PostThu Aug 25, 2005 3:34 pm

And I'm afraid the problem is not that AI players would be too perfect


The problem i see especially there, that AI drivers are
1) very calculateable
2) not intelligent enough to find the right way in the case they stuck/get pushed out...

Problem 1) is soluted by making enough different lines, which could be choosed by random each time the AI driver enters a new lap.
Problem 2) can be soluteable with different ways, but it won't work for all tracks, i can imagine.


AI drivers for X-Bowl and ballgames (and other modifications).
X-Bowl AI might be soluteable i think, in the case there will be some kind of X-Bowl support. But then it might be in the end of the todolist...

Ballgames like PunaBall can have AI players - but creating AI for every different car, (depending on the ball in addition) is very hard, even the most simple solution(s) would be chosen. And also at this case, i guess it will be in the end of the todolist.
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