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Suggestions to increase numbers of players!!!

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mikko

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Re: Suggestions to increase numbers of players!!!

PostWed Jun 21, 2006 10:14 pm

dede wrote:
mikko wrote:One such person is silcir, I'm pretty sure.


Yes, he is fast, but I don't think he is very addicted. Anyways, giving free licenses to players like him wouldn't be a like idea. Did he do something important for the game? Is he racing costantly and much online? I really don't think so.

Free licenses should be assigned to the ones that are trying to build something good for the game (once again.. THEDUDE!). To normal players they can be assigned in case of winning demo cups or contests, for example. Nothing more.
Dede, silcir was very active about slightly over a year or so ago when I started to play TS. Perhaps he has lost his interest due to not having a full license. Well, he can tell himself. In addition to the criteria I mentioned I agree with you that those doing some important for the game should be granted with a license. Winning a hard-contested cup might be considered as such criteria, as well.
Last edited by mikko on Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mouse

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Re: Suggestions to increase numbers of players!!!

PostWed Jun 21, 2006 10:44 pm

dede][quote="mouse wrote:Waza waza waza......i have told you, dede, B4 and others so many times - i am not signed for the 6 nations cup. Again - i am NOT PLAYING IN IT.
BTW i have not been playing because i have other important things to do.

Yeah, like visiting this forum and replying to Waza's messages.
:roll:[/quote]

Hey im on the forum whenever i have the chance, to keep up with whats going on. Just wanted to tell him again not to count me in the cup.
Dont you roll your eyes at me or ill slap you :evil:
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Re: Suggestions to increase numbers of players!!!

PostThu Jun 22, 2006 7:05 am

dede wrote:
creator wrote:And just so you know, we get about 10k downloads for TS per month, so 1000 demo players isn't all that hard to get.


Are we sure about statistics? If they download the game, at least a 30% of them should be playing online, but I can't notice 30 new demo players either. What does this mean?

10k (multiple) downloads/mo
1k (real) downloads/mo
700 of them quit after seeing the demo
300 keep the game on PC
200 of these play the game and after few days quit
100 of them continue playing for more than 1 week
50 of them enjoy the game and continue playing more than 1 month
25 of them start playing online
15 of them quit because of lack of players
the remaining 10 players quit because of their suckiness

So we have 0?

mang i hope it's not real :shock:


What makes you think 30% of the people who try the game will *keep* playing it online, not to mention on the same time zone and at the same time you are?

So, the 10k comes from the bandwidth of downloads from our server divided by the size of the demo (about 6000) plus about one thousand downloads per week from download.com... this number is not accurate but in any case there are thousands of downloads per month. Download.com alone has served over 100k downloads in total (some of which are duplicates of course as they don't reset the count when a new version is released).

So, how many hours do you play per day? We have players on pretty much all time zones so if you play two hours EVERY day you're covering about 10% of the time people could be playing. I think that's one big problem - in order to keep the servers full all the time we'd need thousands of active players, since most players are NOT playing every day even if they love the game, and most can't play several hours at a time. I think you're underestimating how many people play TS, and how many people we would *need* to keep the servers full.

Not to mention, most people actually (when you reach for casual audience, the bigger masses) prefer to play single player and don't want to go online...
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dede

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Re: Suggestions to increase numbers of players!!!

PostThu Jun 22, 2006 4:28 pm

mikko wrote:Dede, silcir was very active about slightly over a year or so ago when I started to play TS. Perhaps he has lost his interest due to not having a full license.

1. He is a fast player
2. He is an active player
3. He is bored of demo version
4. What about buying? If he doesn't want to buy, he won't play with full version or he doesn't think this game is good enough to be paid.

So don't give free licenses to players like this. He isn't a child. If he has interests he buys, if he hasn't then he won't have full version.

creator wrote:What makes you think 30% of the people who try the game will *keep* playing it online, not to mention on the same time zone and at the same time you are?

Hey, this doesn't work with me.. I have played enough to be in TS at any hour. So you can joke about my sillyness, but you can't say this.

creator wrote:I think you're underestimating how many people play TS, and how many people we would *need* to keep the servers full.

I'm not really noticing that big amount of players. I have logs of the games i played for almost 1 year.. They really aren't many. I think we can consider 200-300 players maximum.

creator wrote:Not to mention, most people actually (when you reach for casual audience, the bigger masses) prefer to play single player and don't want to go online....

Yes, this is real and true, i guess. We should involve these players playing online: more players online, new demo, cup section inside...
Game is not useful and enjoying to be played offline. It doesn't show his potential.
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dragonstar

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Re: Suggestions to increase numbers of players!!!

PostThu Jun 22, 2006 5:27 pm

creator wrote:We have players on pretty much all time zones so if you play two hours EVERY day you're covering about 10% of the time people could be playing.


Here's just this one problem, that for european player it really doesn't matter so much if some americans or brazilians are playing. I think it's pretty much so, that european players can play fairly only with other european players. So you really don't have 24 hours a day when you can play online, it's more like 8 hours.

mikko wrote:Perhaps he has lost his interest due to not having a full license.


So he should have received free license in order him to keep playing? If he's interested about the game, then the prize ain't so high.
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Re: Suggestions to increase numbers of players!!!

PostThu Jun 22, 2006 5:37 pm

creator wrote:What makes you think 30% of the people who try the game will *keep* playing it online, not to mention on the same time zone and at the same time you are?

Hey, this doesn't work with me.. I have played enough to be in TS at any hour. So you can joke about my sillyness, but you can't say this.


I guess you missed my point... I'm just wondering why you expect to see 30% of the people who try to game? I mean... most people try any game once and then move on. Even for the best selling games out there (Bejeweled, Mystery Case Files, etc...) it's about 1-2% of the people who buy them. The rest will play at most one hour, since after that the demo version locks out and you have to either pay or stop playing...
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Re: Suggestions to increase numbers of players!!!

PostThu Jun 22, 2006 5:39 pm

dragonstar wrote:
creator wrote:We have players on pretty much all time zones so if you play two hours EVERY day you're covering about 10% of the time people could be playing.


Here's just this one problem, that for european player it really doesn't matter so much if some americans or brazilians are playing. I think it's pretty much so, that european players can play fairly only with other european players. So you really don't have 24 hours a day when you can play online, it's more like 8 hours.


Yeah... exactly. So even though we get 10k downloads per month, only a fraction of that will potentially be online when any one of us is...
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Re: Suggestions to increase numbers of players!!!

PostThu Jun 22, 2006 5:41 pm

dede wrote:1. He is a fast player
2. He is an active player
3. He is bored of demo version
4. What about buying? If he doesn't want to buy, he won't play with full version or he doesn't think this game is good enough to be paid.

Not focusing on silcir in particular, which of these two scenarios would you select:

1. Player is fast
2. Player is active
3. Player is bored of demo version
4. Player would like to have a full version
5. Player has no means of purchasing the full version
6. Player cannot have the full version
7. Player quits playing the game

or

1. Player is fast
2. Player is active
3. Player is bored of demo version
4. Player would like to have a full version
5. Player has no means of purchasing the full version
6. Player is given the full version as a gift
7. Player makes a shift from being an active demo driver to an active registered driver.

I would select the latter one.
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Re: Suggestions to increase numbers of players!!!

PostThu Jun 22, 2006 5:52 pm

dragonstar wrote:So he should have received free license in order him to keep playing? If he's interested about the game, then the prize ain't so high.

If he would fulfill the scenario 2 i wrote above, then I would give him a free license if I possibly could.
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dragonstar

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Re: Suggestions to increase numbers of players!!!

PostThu Jun 22, 2006 6:03 pm

mikko wrote:Player has no means of purchasing the full version


You mean he doesn't have any way of registering? Like borrowing a friend's/parent's credit card? That is really hard to believe.

I understand what you are trying to say, but I still don't agree with you. Who would decide who is participating enough? Hard to imagine that you could be fair in giving free licenses this way. Like I said before, whether this game is freeware or it's not.

mikko wrote:doing some important for the game should be granted with a license.


Yes, but just playing, no matter how much, isn't good enough reason imo.

Winning a hard-contested cup might be considered as such criteria


Here I totally agree with you.
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dragonstar

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Re: Suggestions to increase numbers of players!!!

PostThu Jun 22, 2006 6:14 pm

mikko wrote:
dragonstar wrote:So he should have received free license in order him to keep playing? If he's interested about the game, then the prize ain't so high.

If he would fulfill the scenario 2 i wrote above, then I would give him a free license if I possibly could.


Maybe I'm splitting hairs here, but what if:

1. Player is slow
2. Player is active
3. Player is bored of demo version
4. Player would like to have a full version
5. Player has no means of purchasing the full version
6. Player is given the full version as a gift
7. Player makes a shift from being an active demo driver to an active registered driver.


What I'm trying to say with this, is that imo it's impossible to make fair rules for this kind of way to have your license. For example, how would you define being active? Or how would you make sure that player really can't buy the license but is just lying?

And btw, you can give him a free license. Just pay for one and give it to him.
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Re: Suggestions to increase numbers of players!!!

PostThu Jun 22, 2006 6:14 pm

dragonstar wrote:You mean he doesn't have any way of registering? Like borrowing a friend's/parent's credit card? That is really hard to believe.


I once (about a year ago) discussed this issue with silcir and he told that he can't buy the full version because the one who has the credit card (his father) thinks this game is complete waste of time. This is all I know about the situtation of silcir, it may have changed though.
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dragonstar

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Re: Suggestions to increase numbers of players!!!

PostThu Jun 22, 2006 6:26 pm

mikko wrote:I once (about a year ago) discussed this issue with silcir and he told that he can't buy the full version because the one who has the credit card (his father) thinks this game is complete waste of time. This is all I know about the situtation of silcir, it may have changed though.


I know the situation and it ain't funny. :( But still hard to believe that he didn't have any other way to register, like with the help of some friends. I have asked a friend of mine to order me something from internet because I couldn't buy it with my visa electron. Then I paid him afterwards, worked fine. :)
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Re: Suggestions to increase numbers of players!!!

PostThu Jun 22, 2006 6:31 pm

dragonstar wrote:Maybe I'm splitting hairs here, but what if:

1. Player is slow
2. Player is active
3. Player is bored of demo version
4. Player would like to have a full version
5. Player has no means of purchasing the full version
6. Player is given the full version as a gift
7. Player makes a shift from being an active demo driver to an active registered driver.


What is most important is that the community benefits from the new registered player. Pure speed is not at the top in importance, I think.

dragonstar wrote:What I'm trying to say with this, is that imo it's impossible to make fair rules for this kind of way to have your license. For example, how would you define being active? Or how would you make sure that player really can't buy the license but is just lying?


These are, of course, difficult issues to be clarified. But the world is not black and white, the use of common sense could be a good guideline here.


dragonstar wrote:And btw, you can give him a free license. Just pay for one and give it to him.

Nice idea. If everyone would do that we would have many more registered players. However, I would feel somewhat discomforted for giving my money to a stranger. I'd prefer investing them on my wife and children.
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Re: Suggestions to increase numbers of players!!!

PostThu Jun 22, 2006 6:58 pm

mikko wrote:What is most important is that the community benefits from the new registered player. Pure speed is not at the top in importance, I think.


Yep, guess I was splitting hairs here.

These are, of course, difficult issues to be clarified. But the world is not black and white, the use of common sense could be a good guideline here.


Ah, common sense, man's best friend. :wink: But yes, I agree with you, I wouldn't mind if silcir would have his license. More players the better I think. I was just thinking about the whole community. How would people feel if some would get their license this way? Like same rules for all I mean. It wouldn't bother me though, but maybe some others, and I wouldn't want to see any more argues between players.
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Re: Suggestions to increase numbers of players!!!

PostThu Jun 22, 2006 8:38 pm

mikko wrote:I once (about a year ago) discussed this issue with silcir and he told that he can't buy the full version because the one who has the credit card (his father) thinks this game is complete waste of time.

Excuses! He pays his father 20$ and his father pays the game. Easy.

creator wrote:I'm just wondering why you expect to see 30% of the people who try to game

1000 players try the demo
700 of them unistall it after few hours/days
the rest continue for more hours/days

BTW I don't have real statistics, I'm just making some counts in order to try to discover why players online aren't many.

mikko wrote:Not focusing on silcir in particular, which of these two scenarios would you select

Add 2 other points to the second scenario:
8. Other players in the community get angry because they spent money when they meybe were more active and fast than the one who got the full version for free
9. Other demo players don't buy full version and try to imitate the one who got the full version for free

I would remember that this game needs also money. Don't forget that Ande isn't going to rebuild TS completely and then giving it as freeware.

dragonstar wrote:And btw, you can give him a free license. Just pay for one and give it to him.

Yes, indeed. I bought a license for a friend that didn't want to buy the game. You can do the same.
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Re: Suggestions to increase numbers of players!!!

PostThu Jun 22, 2006 8:59 pm

dede wrote:Excuses! He pays his father 20$ and his father pays the game. Easy.

So you know he lied to me? Are you sure? Really?

dede wrote:Add 2 other points to the second scenario:
8. Other players in the community get angry because they spent money when they meybe were more active and fast than the one who got the full version for free
9. Other demo players don't buy full version and try to imitate the one who got the full version for free

8. Yes, there are envy people everywhere. I'd turn my back on them instead.
9. Bullshit. Who would have the patience of continuing such imitation for eternity because of $20?
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Re: Suggestions to increase numbers of players!!!

PostThu Jun 22, 2006 9:32 pm

mikko wrote:So you know he lied to me? Are you sure? Really?

I'm just saying: if he pays his father 20$, then his father has no problems letting him pay JGG for the full version.

mikko wrote:9. Bullshit. Who would have the patience of continuing such imitation for eternity because of $20?

Yes, they will. Silcir, Daft, B4r3k2, DaniloDiLuca are examples.
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Re: Suggestions to increase numbers of players!!!

PostThu Jun 22, 2006 9:51 pm

dede wrote:
mikko wrote:So you know he lied to me? Are you sure? Really?

I'm just saying: if he pays his father 20$, then his father has no problems letting him pay JGG for the full version.

Please, read my original post: If his father thinks this game is complete waste of time, that obviously means that his father does not want him to play the game, which then means that his father will not pay for the game regardless of what amount of money he gives to his father. Logical, isn't it?
dede wrote:
mikko wrote:9. Bullshit. Who would have the patience of continuing such imitation for eternity because of $20?

Yes, they will. Silcir, Daft, B4r3k2, DaniloDiLuca are examples.

I would not be too worried of a few black sheeps. They would not pay for the game anyway.
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Re: Suggestions to increase numbers of players!!!

PostThu Jun 22, 2006 10:21 pm

mikko wrote:Logical, isn't it?

No it's not. And by the way he could do the same thing with a little help of friends.
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Re: Suggestions to increase numbers of players!!!

PostThu Jun 22, 2006 10:44 pm

dede wrote:
mikko wrote:Logical, isn't it?

No it's not. And by the way he could do the same thing with a little help of friends.


Actually it is logical. If his dad thinks it is a waste of time [does not want him to play], why would he give him money to let him play more? "Oh that game is a waste, but sure here is my CC so you can buy it!"
:?

I suppose he could find another way to get it somehow, but for some people it may not be easy.
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Re: Suggestions to increase numbers of players!!!

PostFri Jun 23, 2006 6:12 am

dede wrote:
mikko wrote:Logical, isn't it?

No it's not.


Did you forget something? No it's not because... and then comes the justification.
I suggest you to get your brains back from the basket. Dad is the man who says what to do, not vice versa. This applies to Italy as well, I'd guess.
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PostFri Jun 23, 2006 8:49 am

If you want something enough and it doesn't cost millions you can always figure out some ways to get it.
oldschool slider <3 | Hengari @ Quakenet/IRCnet
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PostFri Jun 23, 2006 9:33 am

Hengari wrote:If you want something enough and it doesn't cost millions you can always figure out some ways to get it.

Like getting a cracked version. But seriously, yes that is true. Most people should be capable of purchasing the game in a way or another. However, if there were someone who really cannot (I can't say for sure if there actually is or is not), giving away a free license should not hurt anyone.
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Re: Suggestions to increase numbers of players!!!

PostFri Jun 23, 2006 11:09 am

mikko wrote:
dede wrote:
mikko wrote:Logical, isn't it?

No it's not.


Did you forget something? No it's not because... and then comes the justification.
I suggest you to get your brains back from the basket. Dad is the man who says what to do, not vice versa. This applies to Italy as well, I'd guess.


O.T. Hey Dragon, this is something linked to the discussion we had yesterday, isn't it? :wink:

No, it's not because silcir isn't a kid. His father can think what he wants. If silcir wants to buy and father doesn't give him money, then he can invest some money he receives (for example for going to pub etc). He just pays his father and his father pays the game.

If JGG assigns a license like this I'll ask for 10/20 free licenses for players in this situation. So they can't say "NO". And if others players ask too, then they just have to prove their condition is like silcir's one.

This is logic, not the way you purposed to assign new free licenses.
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