Full Team Contact (reorganization)

Talk it up about competitions, cups, races, and tournaments.

Moderator: Forum Moderators

User avatar
Whiplash
Community User Level: 5
Community User Level: 5
Posts: 2325
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:57 pm
Location: Bosnia

Post by Whiplash » Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:48 pm

xzeal wrote:And I played this cup for about 10 races before giving up. Random teams just does not work. Especially when people quit join and you end up in a spot while some teams have 3 and some 7 drivers. and one of those 3 doesnt speak English and does not understand that you are a TEAM and you are not supposed to push your own guys off the track.

You're right. I just couldn't set master off, cause players constantly went out.
But I was still able to balance it. Even if I miss sometimes to put the same number of drivers in each team, I'm still able to correct it in next races (all his points will come to his new team). That's why many of you were nervous for nothing. You should just be more patient.
Well, for sure, I can't move one team from 4. to 1. position, cause I can't help there if someone suddenly just go out. That team will lose its points as long as someone new join the server. I'm not a God.
Last time it was much better, even not perfect too.
Anyway, I updated the first post. Results are there. Blue team roxed. Congrats! They just had stable drivers.
Results are also uploaded here.

Tijny
Community User Level: 5
Community User Level: 5
Posts: 1514
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:59 pm
Location: Netherlands

Post by Tijny » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:04 pm

And you wonder why I didn't want anything to do with this...

User avatar
Whiplash
Community User Level: 5
Community User Level: 5
Posts: 2325
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:57 pm
Location: Bosnia

Post by Whiplash » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:28 pm

Tijny wrote:And you wonder why I didn't want anything to do with this...

Well, I don't care if you don't like the cup. I'm still sure that it's great format of competing. I just need to find some new tricks to handle it better as an admin. You could help there too. I just need possibility to make also 2 teams too (black and white).
It can't be hard for you.

User avatar
Hevonen
Community User Level: 2
Community User Level: 2
Posts: 162
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:00 am
Location: Oulu, Finland

Post by Hevonen » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:58 pm

Making teams beforehand could make it better. Or not :P

User avatar
Whiplash
Community User Level: 5
Community User Level: 5
Posts: 2325
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:57 pm
Location: Bosnia

Post by Whiplash » Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:24 pm

Hevonen wrote:Making teams beforehand could make it better. Or not :P

No, we already tried that. Many of players will miss the race. Also, it's hard to make teams manually. I would need to set up teams for 20 players. That's just impossible.

And Del, you didn't listen Lexx carefully. He didn't ban Rei for being himself. His finger just slipped and ban him.
I had the same problem. Damn.

Lexx
Community User Level: 2
Community User Level: 2
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:14 pm

Post by Lexx » Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:21 pm

Le sigh ...

The reason REIROM was banned isn't any different from other cases. He's just an idiot. This time he was annoying by saying; GREEN WIN 100's of times. He wasn't finishing races. He was getting lapped on purpose to block anyone who was chasing Cagaruglo (or somethin'). Do I need a better reason?

Also, Del. You're one of the most negative people I know, can't you just give some positive criticism? You just bitch on and on what's wrong with this, or with that etc. But you never suggest new ideas to improve a league or whatsoever.

User avatar
Whiplash
Community User Level: 5
Community User Level: 5
Posts: 2325
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:57 pm
Location: Bosnia

Post by Whiplash » Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:08 am

O.K., I guess it will be necessary to explain that ban, even I hate to write it all since it will not make you less stupid.
We waited more than 15 mins for just one more player to show up. Then you started to use irc to chat with us. I was frustrated while you're spamming with IRC instead of joining the cup and play.
After I decided to run the cup even we had 19 players, you joined I started to type: res res res.
What do you think man...that I'll stop and restart the cup just for you?
If you decided to be an idiot, then you could just join and stfu. I would put you in some team and problem would be solved. But, for some reason, you thought that you're so important to us so we need to restart the cup just for you.
Luckily, my fingers slipped and I banned you.
If you think that some other admin would not do it on that way, then just try to join to F1 league race and ask for res res res while all drivers are on the track. I would like to see that dede will restart the race just to make you happy.
Also, the time of cup was well known. You should respect it and show up earlier. Cup started 15 mins later (just because I decided to be nice and wait to have 5 drivers for each team) and you still had a courage to ask for restart.

Lexx
Community User Level: 2
Community User Level: 2
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:14 pm

Post by Lexx » Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:33 pm

Lexx wrote:The reason REIROM was banned isn't any different from other cases. He's just an idiot.
As far as I know there's no such rule as "Don't be an idiot" on LVP #2. As far as I know I don't have to render an explanation to you.
This time he was annoying by saying; GREEN WIN 100's of times.
Trolling not allowed? Sure allowed, but really annoying. It adds up.
He wasn't finishing races. He was getting lapped on purpose to block anyone who was chasing Cagaruglo (or somethin').
It would of course be nice if you could show me the replays if that really was the case.... (=I don't think you're being truthful here) LOL. See, this is exactly why half of this community doesn't like you.
Do I need a better reason?

Unless he was BWing, yes. No.

Also, Del. You're one of the most negative people I know
Thanks, I guess... You're welcome!
can't you just give some positive criticism?
Pretend it was the best cup I ever "took part" in? Sorry... Couldn't you and Wippe be a bit more positive about people wanting to play your cupthing? Instead of banning them randomly you could just let them... play. How exactly did this answer my question?
You just bitch on and on what's wrong with this, or with that etc. But you never suggest new ideas to improve a league or whatsoever.
Oh I think my suggestion of forum sign-ups wasn't too bad...Oh my gawd, you made 1 suggestion. GO DEL GO DEL!!!!!!

User avatar
semir
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:50 pm

Post by semir » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:48 pm

I agree that this cup format is too interesting, and that TS comunity shouldn't give up from it just because of last night fiasco. Del's suggestion about sign up principle could make this kind of cups more enjoyable to play.


Why did last night cup failed:

1. Most player suggested Whiplash should close the server after cup began. His exuce was that some players will quit. With 1 or 2 players quiting, this cup would still had more sence than it did last night. For example we would have 5 vs 5 vs 3 vs 4, and not 3 vs 7 vs 4 vs 6 like it was the case. And signinig up idea would definitly reduce number of quitings.

2. We have a cases where some cups were called by the name of it's creators, althought it's original names were different (kepanna's cup, lanz's cup) but in that cups there wasn't any admins impact on the results so their officiality had some sence. Official cups where we have one admin God wich have direct impact on results by "balancing the teams" based on his instict is just (I see this word is popular in forum memeber's comunication last couple of days) stupid. For example, yelow team had 3 of 5 cup leaders and still were 20 points behind because blue team had 7 players. And why did they had 7 players? Because they sucked in 2 start races and admin thought that it would be a good idea to balance the teams by giving them all the players that came in the meanwhile.


The biggest irony is that the person wich orginised the most stupid official thing that I ever played on TS is calling other members stupid just because of their (relativly) meaningful comments.
To not be a hypocrite, I don't think Whiplash is stupid, I just think his organisation of last night cup was patetic, and last night cup was (well...) stupid (and that's the fact wich can be confirmed by, I belive, anyone who did participate in last night cup), and I belive he wont make this kind of mistake again.

Anyway, with some organisation changes, I hope we will play this type of cup anytime soon.

User avatar
Whiplash
Community User Level: 5
Community User Level: 5
Posts: 2325
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:57 pm
Location: Bosnia

Post by Whiplash » Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:38 pm

semir wrote: Official cups where we have one admin God wich have direct impact on results by "balancing the teams" based on his instict is just (I see this word is popular in forum memeber's comunication last couple of days) stupid. For example, yelow team had 3 of 5 cup leaders and still were 20 points behind because blue team had 7 players. And why did they had 7 players? Because they sucked in 2 start races and admin thought that it would be a good idea to balance the teams by giving them all the players that came in the meanwhile.

There were more problems than you even could see. The reason why it was so unbalanced is that I had ping over 500, so I decided to not watch the races. I pressed esc every time and waited in chat room. Well, I could watch the player list too, but I realized that to late.
Also, I was disturbed by some stupid people and their spamming. Also, it's not true that we could have nice race with closed server. Just watch how many players each team has. I had to make 9 changes in total. So, it's not just like you said. If 9 players come in and out - cup will be ruined again.
If I just had better connection, and If I just could type f*** [ ] signs, it would be all better. Even Lexx halped me, I hate when other admin control things with me. It's confusing.
But next time I'll organize it better. It's needed to put more rules on the table.
Next time I 'll close the server. When someone go out and unbalance the teams, I 'll fill his spot with the worst player of the best team (or something similar). I guess that will be fair. If someone wants to keep playing for his team, he will have to avoid to be the worst in it.

User avatar
Whiplash
Community User Level: 5
Community User Level: 5
Posts: 2325
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:57 pm
Location: Bosnia

Post by Whiplash » Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:26 pm

Del wrote:Again, this whole leaving during cup malarkey could be solved with forum sign-ups. Obviously you regard that as admitting defeat as you furiously believe that you can somehow make the current system work so you'll never even consider it...

What a genius. And what will be improved by that? What's the difference if someone just say "I'm in"?
I already said that we had sign-ups in first cup. That didn't work because many of them didn't show up anyway. Also, many non-signed-uped players arrived. I couldn't just kick them out. This is not a league, so sign-ups are not needed.
Since you don't read my previous posts, I'll never respond to any of your comments again.

Lexx
Community User Level: 2
Community User Level: 2
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:14 pm

Post by Lexx » Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:47 pm

I helped you Whip, because you asked me ...

So, Del. Since you have a bright idea for everything, and not just FTC cups, or any other TurboSliders related stuff, and world-peace and such. You should organise it, because you are the oracle!

PAOLO
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:55 pm
Location: Italy
Contact:

Post by PAOLO » Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:41 pm

Anyway, thank you for having organized it.

I think that TEAM RACE could be better and even amazing with some few modifications, finalized to avoid people leaving and improve the sense of belonging to their teams:

1) champ last only 12 tracks
2) forum subscription needed
3) during subscription allow people to specify the team in which he will race:

example:
"
I'm in!
I'. like to race in team with isaak and gigi.
"
If a team is too strong or too poor, the admin balance them

p.s: this will permit for example to create an italian team and easily beat the others! :)

4)Organize the championship not in the classic fullcontact server,but in a dedicated server and when all the player are in, make the server invisible to the others.Only if a player leave the server, reset temporarily the server as visible to allow a substitute to enter.

What do you think about?

PAOLO
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:55 pm
Location: Italy
Contact:

Post by PAOLO » Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:47 pm

About the third point, i think that when a player specify the team to play with, it's very probable that he really will partecipate!
Anyway there's no sense to subscribe and not partecipate!

Another suggestion:

5)Limit number of player to allow clean driving and evitate the "destruction derby effect":

for example,allowed:
- 16 player, 4 teams (maybe too players)
- 12 player, 4 teams
- 10 player, 2 teams
- 8 player, 2 teams
- 9 player, 3 teams

User avatar
Whiplash
Community User Level: 5
Community User Level: 5
Posts: 2325
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:57 pm
Location: Bosnia

Post by Whiplash » Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:54 pm

PAOLO wrote:1) champ last only 12 tracks

That's not enough. 24 is much better. Otherwise (with 12 tracks), it would look just like one more ordinary cup.
PAOLO wrote:2) forum subscription needed

That will not help a lot. I already tried that before.
PAOLO wrote:3) during subscription allow people to specify the team in which he will race:

example:
"
I'm in!
I'. like to race in team with isaak and gigi.

No. That will make many problems for me as an administrator. I would have to put manually every single player to his team. That would be irritating. I can use only automatic randomizing selection like I always do.

PAOLO wrote:4)Organize the championship not in the classic fullcontact server,but in a dedicated server and when all the player are in, make the server invisible to the others. Only if a player leave the server, reset temporarily the server as visible to allow a substitute to enter.

I'm not sure would it make things better. I think that it's good that people always joining. The only problem is when someone leaves. I can always put new player somewhere. But, when someone leaves, it's problem to fill his place sometimes.


In general, I'll find a way to put some new rules on the table to fix all problems.
There are few thoughts that I'll not give up from:
-Each player should be respected the same (even players who are not signed up).
-If player is signed up, his place in cup is guaranteed, nothing more than that.
-All teams must be balanced by their number of players.
-If someone left his team - it's not the team's fault.
Also, if someone get a stable team - it's not deserved - it's just a luck.
-The biggest difference of number of members per each team can be only 1.
-Cup must have clear rules, so any admin can host it easily. He should know what to do in any moment and in any situation while cup is running.
-The only cup organizer can be the administrator. All other players can not give any suggestion during the cup. They can only join, stfu, and play.
-There must be alternative solution for waiting a new player to join. We have to consider that sometimes it could take a lot of time.
In other words - administrator can not be dependent on new players.
-If some new player join, that's good. But if no one join, admin must have alternative solution.
-All cup rules must be established for all times. We can not make new rules during every cup.
-Rules must be clear and easy to fallow.

User avatar
Whiplash
Community User Level: 5
Community User Level: 5
Posts: 2325
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:57 pm
Location: Bosnia

Post by Whiplash » Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:14 pm

PAOLO wrote:About the third point, i think that when a player specify the team to play with, it's very probable that he really will partecipate!
Anyway there's no sense to subscribe and not partecipate!

Sure, it sounds logical, but always someone fails. I have big experience about that.

PAOLO wrote:Another suggestion:

5)Limit number of player to allow clean driving and evitate the "destruction derby effect":

for example,allowed:
- 16 player, 4 teams (maybe too players)
- 12 player, 4 teams
- 10 player, 2 teams
- 8 player, 2 teams
- 9 player, 3 teams

Sure, I already thought about it too and I don't like it. I can't think about so many things. Even if I make server invisible, some people still coming cause they use "recent server" option. They have saved its IP there and they are curious to see what's going on on LVP server cause they can't see it on the servers list.
So, I can't think about all those things. I hardly take care about team balancing, and I can't think now about what player(s) should be kicked too.
The other thing: Only 4 teams is allowed to make. There is no option to make less or more than 4. But even if I had that option, I would still prefer 4 teams (5 players in each).
Sure, If I had less than 12 players, I would set 2 or 3 teams. But I have no that option. Tijny doesn't want to make it. :P I hardly convinced him to make last script. Lazy bastard! :P

Post Reply