[planning] TurboSliders.com F1 League 2011 Edition

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dede
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[planning] TurboSliders.com F1 League 2011 Edition

Post by dede » Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:42 pm

Holidays are running out, TurboSliders is still alive after 7 years (?) since its first version. It's time again to organize a big competition, such as the Formula 1 League.

Everything will be decided within 1 month, as I plan to start with test races in the last weeks of September.

Car
I believe that keeping the TSE-F1beta2 might be the best options, unless we want some particular change.

Tracks
I'd love to go back to unreleased tracks for "main event". Rookie race could be based on previous race's unreleased track.

Fuel
I'd say yes, and amount of fuel remaining after quali will be startfuel for the race.

Tyre Wear
We have to make tests about this, but it could be a great addition if settings are good. Of course this isn't a real simulation of tyre wear, as it wouldn't work the same way. In TS we can implement it by using damaging terrain (tarmac = low damage, grass/sand/etc = higher damage). So basically the more you drive clean, the longer your tyres will last. Difference between fresh and worn tyres could be set to something like 2s on a 30s track.

Teams
Not really sure about this topic. We could keep big teams (5 players) like we did in last cup (players split by expected skills). Or what?

Qualification to "main race"
We could use the same system as last cup: wanking server, top18 qualify to the race directly. Top 2 of rookie race will qualify as well (and additional free spots assigned basing on rookie race results).

The League
I'd like to have longer championship, with about 10-12 races. Another good thing would be to consider only best 8-10 results, so that missing a race or two wouldn't affect the ranking at all.


Well, your ideas?? ;)
Last edited by dede on Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Etmil » Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:57 pm

Would it somehow be possible to get fresh tyres after wearing out one of the sets?
I am all for MOAR RACES!

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Post by Tijny » Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:22 pm

dede wrote:Car
I believe that keeping the TSE-F1beta2 might be the best options, unless we want some particular change.

I think the old car's name alone justifies the creation of a new one. Would be nice to finally have a "final" version after years of driving "beta" cars. I also believe the car's elasticity should be made (much) higher, so that something actually happens when you collide with other cars (and obstacles). You could say people would get pushed/launched off the track more often, I say you'll just have to be more careful about touching others. Default cars have an elasticity of 0.8 (as opposed to the F1 car's 0.25), and they handle collisions just fine.

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Post by dede » Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:33 am

Etmil wrote:Would it somehow be possible to get fresh tyres after wearing out one of the sets?

Yeah, you can pit and recover energy. Time to refill energy could be put to a very low value (3/4 seconds) in order to get fresh tyres in a reasonable amount of time.

Tijny wrote:I think the old car's name alone justifies the creation of a new one.

Ok, I agree. I'll be up for tests in next days.

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Re: [planning] TurboSliders.com F1 League 2011 Edition

Post by Wokinger » Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:11 am

dede wrote:Tyre Wear
We have to make tests about this, but it could be a great addition if settings are good. Of course this isn't a real simulation of tyre wear, as it wouldn't work the same way. In TS we can implement it by using damaging terrain (tarmac = low damage, grass/sand/etc = higher damage). So basically the more you drive clean, the longer your tyres will last. Difference between fresh and worn tyres could be set to something like 2s on a 30s track.



Tyre wear was introduced in our Porsche Supercup and I can say that it'is a great addition. It's much easier to copy tyre strategy than fuel one. It helps people, who aren't good at setting good strategy, so it reduces inervals between best and not as good players.

dede wrote:Well, your ideas?? ;)


I think that you should check if pitlanes aren't too short. Just in case 4 or 5 stop strategy are the best :D

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Re: [planning] TurboSliders.com F1 League 2011 Edition

Post by dede » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:00 pm

Wokinger wrote:I think that you should check if pitlanes aren't too short. Just in case 4 or 5 stop strategy are the best :D

Each pit makes you lose min 10s, so I believe so many pits wouldn't work. Best thing would be to have two or three possible tactics that work about the same way..

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Post by Lexx » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:56 pm

It depends on how you want to make things. If you want to make things more 'even', you should add more strategy. That way average player can still have a good finish. If we won't, the top 3 will (almost) be the same each race.

So, if you want the most skill involved, I'd say no to tyres, if we want more 'luck' or people who use their brains, use tyres....

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Post by Whiplash » Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:42 pm

Tijny wrote:I think the old car's name alone justifies the creation of a new one. Would be nice to finally have a "final" version after years of driving "beta" cars...

I agree. Some simple short name pls. And, use this image pls. Last one wasn't symmetric; front wing was too tight. I made it little wider just like on real F1 cars. Rear wing is changed a little bit too.

Also, I prefer released tracks. I hate to calculate the fuel during the qualifications. It makes me nervous. I don't like that kind of pressure. It's better to have some time to test different options with fuel. I enjoy much more when everything is transparent.
Otherwise, players will make only lucky strategies which is nonsense.

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Post by shyguy1001 » Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:28 pm

Car:

Yeah, I love the current car, perhaps a bit wider or narrower tracks might be nice but.. as it is it is great.

Tracks:

Personally, I like released tracks.. perhaps a mix of new and the best ones from previous leagues.. but I guess it doesn't really matter as long as we get a reasonable amount of practice time

Fuel:

Certainly. In either way, usual fuel strategy, or a F1 simulation "no refueling", I would definitely want fuel, or it's not F1 for me. If you did a "no refueling thing", all it would mean is set a fuel value which means to get to the end of the race on around 60-100% fuel, and then set the refueling time on pitstops to like 500 seconds.. so you would have to calculate the amount of fuel to get you to the end in practice. But personally, I would prefer the normal way.

Tyre Wear:

Yeah, I believe this is EXACTLY what tyre wear was made for - long races without safety cars/cautions which have a chance for strategy to play out. If you watch the race which I posted up in the SCARTS road racing topic, you can see how tyre's create very interesting strategies.. perhaps, without tyre wear on, the fastest strategy on fuel would be a 2 stop. But with tyre wear, the advantage of the new tyres would make a 3 stop also a viable strategy.. and then, REIROM is stuck behind dede, so he makes a pitstop, gets enough fuel to go to the end, and full tyres (which should go to full very quickly in about 3 seconds, keep fuel as it is).. Dede sees this but decides he likes his rhythm on the low fuel even if his tyres are low and stays out a few more laps until his fuel runs out. REIROM set fast as lion laps on new tyres and is now out in front of dede.. but his tyres have worn 20% in that time, and dede got a shorter pitstop as he had to fill up less fuel.. so dede begins to catch REIROM resulting in epic battle to the finish :) That is, if trackmakers all put the same damage line in their terrains, otherwise it would become too hard for league organizers to keep consistency in the tyres. I would suggest quite a low damage number because it easy to make tyres LESS durable, but there is a cap on making tyres MORE durable.

Teams:

Personally, I would want 2 car teams, and both have to wear the same livery. Doesn't have to be based on skill, or anything, but everyone should be in one and they would go for an overall championship. But that's just me.

Qualification:

Yeah, the last system was great, keep it.

The League:

Yes, I like that idea, 12 races.. perhaps the best 9 results count? 3 races is a normal amount to miss over a 9 race period and still be able to contend.

And also, shameless advertising here, can I please direct people to the F1 Race Videos topic - I NEED A COMMENTATOR :P

EDIT:

Tijny I completely agree with you about the cars.. sure people might crash more often, but I think it would be a great thing if people were discouraged from touching eachother. Atm, you can get away with too much roughness without the guy you are roughing up spinning off the track.. I believe many people would race much cleaner if there was a chance of them pushing someone right off the track and ruining their race or perhaps their own race as they wait for them..

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Post by dede » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:38 pm

Whiplash wrote:Otherwise, players will make only lucky strategies which is nonsense.

Why do you say this? Normally races on unreleased tracks required about the same amount of fuel, because rece length was calculated basing on totaltime (25/26 minutes). It shouldn't be too hard to calculate total amount of fuel needed, but of course there can be mistakes (I remember I made some too!).

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Post by Whiplash » Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:58 pm

dede wrote:
Whiplash wrote:Otherwise, players will make only lucky strategies which is nonsense.

Why do you say this? Normally races on unreleased tracks required about the same amount of fuel, because rece length was calculated basing on totaltime (25/26 minutes). It shouldn't be too hard to calculate total amount of fuel needed, but of course there can be mistakes (I remember I made some too!).

I meant that players will not be able to test different fuel settings. So, good settings will be possible to hit mostly by luck, which is not good.
I remember I never visited the pit on unreleased tracks. :) I was always driving like a turtle half of lap without fuel cause I've made bad calculations. It's just frustrating to think about all of that. And, also, unreleased tracks seems childish total, I don't know why.

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Post by Whiplash » Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:46 pm

One more thing dede. This time try to make some more visible stats. Don't make that people have to download it as a excel file like last season. There should be results of each race + summarised results + races videos.
Stats were the worst part of last season. All other stuff were almost perfect.

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Post by GR8Arjen » Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:13 pm

I agree with almost everything suggest for the new league except the change suggested regarding touching with the car.

The car like it is now, rewards/encourages close racing. if you change this in a way that a slight touch will make you loose way more time, then nobody will dare to overtake, or try to go side by side corner to corner. I have done many many great epic battles with this car with lots of great players. Sometimes driving next to eachother for up to half a lap.

This is a result of respect between drivers wich we should always encourage. Don't change this please, cause not only will people do less overtaking, or batteling side by side, it will also hurt the car in front more if het get's a small touch from behind. (this will encourage more pushing aswell (more tempting), so the thing you want to archive will only backfire this way)

Regarding tyres, I would like to have this activated in a test race before I have an opinion about it. It sounds promising, so that's cool.

Looking forward to this cup! 8)

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Post by Whiplash » Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:40 pm

GR8Arjen wrote:I agree with almost everything suggest for the new league except the change suggested regarding touching with the car.

The car like it is now, rewards/encourages close racing. if you change this in a way that a slight touch will make you loose way more time, then nobody will dare to overtake, or try to go side by side corner to corner.

I agree with Arjy. Maybe pat design should be changed a little bit (it could be more preciser). That would probably have influence on battling. Pat is too tight right now, and too round, so it gives possibility to drive almost right trough the opponents. If it could be little preciser, players would have optimal settings for overtaking. Cars will not be bumpy, but it will be still little harder to overtake, cause pat will make that 2 cars can stuck one by another during the contact. Preciser pat will not be slippery as it is now.

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Post by GR8Arjen » Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:05 am

Perhaps the turning cycle could be adjust a slight bit so you can make some tighter lines, this ofcourse should result in some slight oversteer when the power is put on to early. Just a thought. ;)

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Post by dede » Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:40 am

Whiplash wrote:One more thing dede. This time try to make some more visible stats.

Jaykoq. :wink:

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Post by Jaykoq » Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:23 am

dede wrote:
Whiplash wrote:One more thing dede. This time try to make some more visible stats.

Jaykoq. :wink:

:D

I like the idea with more tracks, weekly wanks, and rookie races.
Top 9-10 scores thru season will be challenging to make in excel (i mean, for excel to do it automatically), but nvm - Stat-man is here o/
I'm a moron \o/

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Post by Wokinger » Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:49 am

Jaykoq wrote:Top 9-10 scores thru season will be challenging to make in excel (i mean, for excel to do it automatically), but nvm - Stat-man is here o/


Sum of 9-10 best results. That's not a problem for excel ;P

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Post by Jaykoq » Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:32 pm

Wokinger wrote:
Jaykoq wrote:Top 9-10 scores thru season will be challenging to make in excel (i mean, for excel to do it automatically), but nvm - Stat-man is here o/


Sum of 9-10 best results. That's not a problem for excel ;P


Dunno, i think there is option for doing that automatic ... I must open excel first, but hey, nothing can stop me in excel :D
I'm a moron \o/

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Post by dede » Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:23 pm

My opinion about car collisions is that with high speed it might be very hard to avoid them. Don't forget that we aren't driving a 3D F1 simulation such as GP4 where you can brake harder if you are too fast and somehow avoid the contact. In TS if you brake 0.1s later than car in front, you will most probably touch it. For this reason I believe that using "standard" bounciness with this car would be a bad idea. But ok, let's give a final feedback after driving some tests.

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Post by Tijny » Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:26 pm

dede wrote:My opinion about car collisions is that with high speed it might be very hard to avoid them. Don't forget that we aren't driving a 3D F1 simulation such as GP4 where you can brake harder if you are too fast and somehow avoid the contact. In TS if you brake 0.1s later than car in front, you will most probably touch it. For this reason I believe that using "standard" bounciness with this car would be a bad idea. But ok, let's give a final feedback after driving some tests.
You're right that it can be hard to avoid contacts sometimes, but I'm not suggesting to use "standard" bounciness. Just something a little less extreme. With the old car, nothing much will happen when you collide with someone - I would like to make it so that something will happen, just not necessarily something catastrophic.

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Post by dede » Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:39 pm

Del wrote:If you brake later you should swerve out from the line of the person in front if you think there's a possibility of hitting them.

Ok, how many players can do this in TS? Two or three? It's not about being fair, it's just the game dynamic that is too fast for it. Don't you agree that TS doesn't offer the same possibilities as real life and everything is quicker?

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