Full Contact tournament

Talk it up about competitions, cups, races, and tournaments.

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Kyna_musti
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Full Contact tournament

Post by Kyna_musti » Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:18 pm

I have thought what sounds a Full Contact tournament, where everyone has lives (2-3) and when someone comes last to goal, he losts one life. We have played a tournament like this many years ago and it was nice i think. That could be a team tournament too, but maybe single tournament would be better first. Car would be RDP-Antislider, tracks would be some tracks where cars COULDN'T get trapped (cause then its hard to say who was the last one etc). 2 or 3 laps/race and there would be that many races, until there is only one driver left.

These are only some my ideas, but if this sounds good, lets plan something :)

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Kyna_musti
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yo

Post by Kyna_musti » Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:43 pm

I think Anti is the best one anyways :D I have seen that on FC-server has been much people at evenings at last days, so maybe a tournament would be nice :)

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Post by Tijny » Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:05 pm

Nice idea. This can also relatively easily be automated by a script, so that the admins will have to do little to nothing. I do think 3 laps/3 lives would be too much, though. With 20 players that's close to 60 races, which is the equivalent of 5 full cups. Maybe 2 lives would be better.

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y

Post by Kyna_musti » Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:25 pm

You are right. 60 races sound pretty much :D But if there could be some script, admins could host those tournaments more often. And with 2 lives it will be much shorter. But all ideas are welcome!

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shyguy1001
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Post by shyguy1001 » Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:25 pm

Sounds like a great idea.. my question to you would be:

What start order to keep it fair

Are you really gonna have just 4/3/2 player races at the end? Why not once you get down to the last 5/4 hold a "best of 3" thing where they must try and get the best average finish (or points) over 3 races? Just an idea :)

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Re: y

Post by Tijny » Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:36 pm

Kyna_musti wrote:You are right. 60 races sound pretty much :D But if there could be some script, admins could host those tournaments more often. And with 2 lives it will be much shorter. But all ideas are welcome!

There can also be some sort of compromise, like having 2 lives to start with, and giving everyone an additional life when ~10 players remain. This would cut back the cup length, but would still decrease the luck factor when things start to get serious.

shyguy1001 wrote:What start order to keep it fair

Are you really gonna have just 4/3/2 player races at the end? Why not once you get down to the last 5/4 hold a "best of 3" thing where they must try and get the best average finish (or points) over 3 races? Just an idea :)

I don't see any reason to change the format when few players remain, I actually think it would be kind of awesome to have a head-to-head duel for the cup win. And yeah, random order would be best.

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Re: y

Post by shyguy1001 » Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:44 pm

Tijny wrote:There can also be some sort of compromise, like having 2 lives to start with, and giving everyone an additional life when ~10 players remain. This would cut back the cup length, but would still decrease the luck factor when things start to get serious.


This idea I like..

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Post by Whiplash » Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:22 pm

The only serious problem could be car type. Starting positions influences much more on the race result with RDP-AntiSlider than with EasySlider cause it's much harder to use some dirty moves with EZ (like blocking, bumping etc.). But, for sure, we should try it. :wink:

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Jan
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Post by Jan » Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:57 pm

The starting order could be the result of the last race so you benefit for winning races. The only problem is that the one who loses must start last but I don't know if it's that bad. :P The best order would be the last in previous race at pole and others in the finishing order of the last race but I guess that isn't possible. Random is always a good choice though. ;)

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Post by shyguy1001 » Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:09 pm

Plus since there's no benefit to scoring well, the only place that matters is last, there could be a whole lot of sandbagging involved :)

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Post by Keppana » Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:16 pm

Jan wrote:The best order would be the last in previous race at pole and others in the finishing order of the last race but I guess that isn't possible. Random is always a good choice though. ;)
If so, reversed last race order, there will be players camping at the finish line to finish the race near to last position. Vote for random order. RDP itself may cause also unfair problem for those who stuck to each others and possible throws the car to the other side of the map.

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j

Post by Kyna_musti » Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:54 am

Yeah, but it doesn't matter are you 19th or 1st, so if doesn't matter if you start last, cause with one push, you could get yourself out of last place. And sometimes its good to start at last positions.

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Re: j

Post by Jan » Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:18 pm

Kyna_musti wrote:Yeah, but it doesn't matter are you 19th or 1st, so if doesn't matter if you start last, cause with one push, you could get yourself out of last place. And sometimes its good to start at last positions.
Actually not because if you start first you can slow down and be last in the corner if you want to. If you start last you can't be first in the corner even if you wanted. So the better starting position you have, the more choices you have in the first moments of the race. ;) So in my opinion last race order or random is good.

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Post by Tijny » Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:36 am

Another option would be to eliminate people based on cup standings instead of using lives, i.e. after every 2 races, the player with the lowest amount of points is out. This would decrease the luck factor, and more importantly, it would give players an incentive to keep fighting for the win. Any thoughts on this?

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Post by Whiplash » Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:45 am

Tijny wrote:Another option would be to eliminate people based on cup standings instead of using lives, i.e. after every 2 races, the player with the lowest amount of points is out. This would decrease the luck factor, and more importantly, it would give players an incentive to keep fighting for the win. Any thoughts on this?

I'm not sure. It will be always all about starting order.

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Post by Tijny » Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:34 am

Whiplash wrote:I'm not sure. It will be always all about starting order.

?

Au contraire, the importance of starting order would be greatly reduced because it's not one bad result that gets you eliminated, it's the average of several results. It could also be made so that only the last ~6 races count towards elimination instead of the whole cup, to keep things interesting in the later stages.

Del wrote:IMO it's better to eliminate the last one because you can be pretty certain if you're last or not and drive accordingly. That way you won't be eliminated by surprise.

You're partially right, but it will never really be a surprise because you can always see if you're in the danger zone or not. "Drive accordingly" - that's the one thing I've always hated about K.O. cups like this. Whether you're first or second last makes no difference whatsoever so people will have no reason to try and fight for the win.

Another advantage of this format is that there would be more options regarding the types of tracks that can be selected. With the traditional system it would be bad to have any tracks where one can get trapped on the first lap, whereas with my idea that's perfectly possible.

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Post by Pingu » Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:48 am

Tijny wrote:Another option would be to eliminate people based on cup standings instead of using lives, i.e. after every 2 races, the player with the lowest amount of points is out. This would decrease the luck factor, and more importantly, it would give players an incentive to keep fighting for the win. Any thoughts on this?


Would make sense if points get reset after people get eliminated. Otherwise the pros build aup a big lead and then they can finish for instance 2 times last but still have a big enough lead while normally they would have been eliminated.

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Post by Tijny » Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:31 pm

Pingu wrote:Would make sense if points get reset after people get eliminated. Otherwise the pros build aup a big lead and then they can finish for instance 2 times last but still have a big enough lead while normally they would have been eliminated.

Tijny wrote:It could also be made so that only the last ~6 races count towards elimination instead of the whole cup, to keep things interesting in the later stages.

Points reset after every elimination would mean that only 2 races would count, I don't think this is enough to eliminate the luck factor and it would also mean a pretty big chance of a tie between 2 or more players. I think 6 is a nice number.

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Post by kikiriki » Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:56 pm

Good idea 8)

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Post by Whiplash » Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:20 pm

Tijny wrote:
Whiplash wrote:I'm not sure. It will be always all about starting order.

?

Au contraire, the importance of starting order would be greatly reduced because it's not one bad result that gets you eliminated, it's the average of several results. It could also be made so that only the last ~6 races count towards elimination instead of the whole cup, to keep things interesting in the later stages.

You're right, but not totally. It will work in first races with many players. But in few last, it will be big advantage to get pole in first of 2 races. But that's impossible to fix anyway, cause it's all about car type.

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Post by JoHn_5 » Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:18 pm

I got an idea, but it will only work well, if reverse cup order uses random order when people are tied in points.

Basicly, the idea behind this thread can be implemented by carefully picking how points for positions are awarded. For example, if that is possible by script, the points could be set to award one point to everybody, except to who comes last. This would have to be reset after each kicking ofc. Additional point could be awarded for win, or podium, or something else. But don't make the point gaps to big.

My idea would be an endurance cup. We race and get awarded points as above. Start order is reverse cup. So after first race, there will be one person with 0 points and he will start first, rest will be randomed. After next race, there might be two persons with 1 point, rest with 2 and so on. This would go on and on, till there is exactly one person with lowest amount of points. That person gets kicked. Repeat till last man standing. To prevent odd situtions, allow don't kick one race after another - one race on no kicking between kicks.

Important: You'd have to pick tracklist and avoid tracks with traps.

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