F1 League Pre-Qualifying Format

[dede]

As promised, we are going to discuss about what "Pre-Qualifying" system we'll use from 2nd race to 10th. I believe that it's a very hard choice, because both systems have very good points. Please forget prejudices, arguing, etc and vote basing on what would be the best for the league (not just for your chances to qualify to Pro Race!).

These are the two options:

1. Average lap (best 3 laps out of - Weekly Wanking
This is the format we are using right now: 1 server online 24/7, released track (used in previous Pro race), top 15/18 players qualify to Pro race directly -> other players will driver Rookie race in the same released track.

+ more activity in the server during the week
+ real rookies will have the possibility to train for the race, since track is released
+ two possibilities to join Pro race (qualify in top 15/18 or finish in top 2/5 in rookie race)
- good players with limited time will use rookie race as a real qualifier -> no real challange for rookies
- possibility that some qualified players will miss the Pro race, leaving additional free spots

2. Fastest Lap Qualifying before the race
This format requires two dedicated servers where ALL players will connect, download the track and drive a medium-long (15 laps?) pre-qualifying session based on Fastest Lap (no fuel, no damage.. just full speed!). Top 20 players will drive the Pro race, others will drive Rookie race.

+ the whole event will last 1h, max 1h30m (no extra time required for qualifying)
+ both Rookie and Pro races will be based on unreleased tracks
+ all players who join pre-qualifying round will be likely remain for the race as well -> no free spots
- rookies aren't pushed to play more, unless they want to train alone/in F1 server
- switching between servers after pre-qualifying round
- there won't be an admin/supervisor for rookie race => no random players allowed for security reasons (we can give the password to somebody who will likely never manage to qualify to Pro race, but he shouldn't stop his race just because some random player drives backwards!)


==============================================


I'm not opening a real poll just because my aim is to get your opinion and your arguments. Unmotivated votes won't be considered.

[Whiplash]

- good players with limited time will use rookie race as a real qualifier -> no real challange for rookies
- possibility that some qualified players will miss the Pro race, leaving additional free spots

For sure, my vote still goes to 1.
I just want to say that both of these disadvantages can be solved on a cute way.
1. Merge the rookie and pro races to one competition. I don't think that somebody will be demotivated by 21. position in general, and motivated more by 1. place in rookie. Every normal person will treat it the same.
But if you still insist on having it, why not to make a line under the 20th place. 21. position should be changed to 1. , 22. to 2. and so on.
...
19. 30 pts
20. 25 pts
-------------
1. 25 pts
2. 20 pts
...

So, no one will actually know totally who is pro and who is rookie as long as we've not finished all races.
After finishing all races you will say who are rookie and pro winners.


2. All players (especially those ones from 1st (pro) race) should have an obligation to inform us when they 'll not be able to drive, so you could inform players from rookie race that there is one (or more) free spots to fight for.

I really don't know what will gonna be improved by 2. option. Just imagine, you will just make us wanking offline this time, which is much more boring and that could be influenced on whole league too.

Like somebody already said up there, Luxx and others still have an option - to not play the quali wanking. They can always join to rookie and qualify from there. Tijny probably spent many hours to organize all the stuff which I found very cool. Why to ruin it all? And, also, think more about newcomers. The only thing that attracted them to come to the forum is........guess..........WANKING baby!
I know, I know, there are some of people who like f*** more than wanking. But they will not get me.

[Augusto]

i think option 1 is better... it gives a lot of time for everyone to learn the track and it will make the race more even and interesting

[Lanz]

[quote="dede"]
+ more activity in the server during the week


hell yeah! its very nice how it is now! lots of people playing F1! would you really want to change that? without that server going a lot of people wouldnt play!

[Etmil]

Is the first race going to be on Xianlao?

[lux2]

I'm obviously for option 2.

+Everybody will race on the unreleased track
+Nobody will need to loose time driving again and again the same track, maybe for gaining nothing.
+people that want to train/learn F1 will join the racing server (I'll be one of them) and not the boring ww.. I think that new players will have more fun by racing against somobody, instead to drive without opponents just to read after each race that they are in 35th position.

-? morons in rookie race... I watched a couple of rookie races last season and fairplay was not really in the air. Fuel off and promode on could be a solution for rookies.

+ more activity in the server during the week

hell yeah! its very nice how it is now! lots of people playing F1! would you really want to change that?

Actually there are only a few players more than those that usually join the racing server.
And it's the first race.
Do you really think that people still continue to wank 1 track with 1 car for 10 weeks after they understand thet they never reach the main race?

[Del]

I vote for option 2 too.

Some more points that could make the descriptions too long:
Option 1
- lower activity on other servers (you would have the option of actually racing in the F1 if there was no wanky)
- interest in the league may decrease as people tire of wanking (from lux)

Option 2
+ players of equal skill have an equal chance to qualify, i.e. those who can wank 70 hours have no advantage over those who can wank 1 hour (ideally worded better=shorter. You did sort of touch on this with the first point but I feel it should be emphasised more) (also sort of from lux)

I really don't know what will gonna be improved by 2. option. Just imagine, you will just make us wanking offline this time, which is much more boring and that could be influenced on whole league too.

I thought you thought wanking is fun no matter if it's online or off. Anyway you would still have at least the F1 racing server and possibly wanking server too (though the only differences are ghost, fuel and damage so shutting the wanking server could be better for the F1 people overall).

Like somebody already said up there, Luxx and others still have an option - to not play the quali wanking. And, also, think more about newcomers. The only thing that attracted them to come to the forum is........guess..........WANKING baby!

So just because you and Arjen say the rules shouldn't be changed even if the majority thought a new would system be better? And non-wankers only have 5/2 spots to qualify instead of the wanking 15/18. And last sentence... No.

i think option 1 is better... it gives a lot of time for everyone to learn the track and it will make the race more even and interesting

Are completely misinformed votes considered? You won't get to know the track any better since the track will only be released minutes before the practice session starts. Option 1 makes you wank on the track that the previous race was on. You'll still be driving an unknown track in the race. (And now I realised Etmil got that first hoho)

And about rookie race morons: was anything done to them last season during the race? I can't remember. If not, what would change if there were no admins? Pro mode should sort most of them out.

[lux2]

- there won't be an admin/supervisor for rookie race => no random players allowed for security reasons (we can give the password to somebody who will likely never manage to qualify to Pro race, but he shouldn't stop his race just because some random player drives backwards!)[/color]

In case no admins will have to race the rookie race (or if they don't want to ruin their race by stopping for banning people), I'm available, even in case I qualify for prorace, to race the rookie one.
Promode off and quick ban for BWers.
At the end, the only thing i'm intersted in is to race on an unreleased track.
I'm sure there will be good players/opponents in the rookie race too.

[dede]

And about rookie race morons: was anything done to them last season during the race?

Yeah, I banned a couple of assholes during the race. Of course, this happens when you let anybody race. With subscriptions we shouldn't have this problem (once a subscribed player drives backwards -> ban from the league).

About race format in 1st option (weekly wanking on released track), maybe it's not so clear:

PRO RACE -> unreleased track
ROOKIE RACE -> pre-qualifying track = previous pro race's track (except for first race, which is Xianlao).

2nd option:

PRO RACE -> unreleased track
ROOKIE RACE -> unreleased track

[Whiplash]

Btw, once again, I don't really know what will you get with unreleased tracks. I think it's even more unfair to play. Some of drivers aren't able to optimize their PCs for that kind of playing. Unreleased track gives advantage to players who have big monitors where they can set small zoom which is very important thing.
Also, I hate to calculate anything during the driving. That's patetic. I already see that I 'll never finish the race. I never finished the race in the F1 racing server that we have now, so League will be even more patetic for me.

Del and Lux are always speaking about time consumption: "I's not fair that someone drive 70 hours and someone just 1..bla bla".
Well, that's impossible to change. If I want, I will still play 70 hours, but offline and increase my speed. So, you just want to ruin our fun to wank online, cause that's all you can achieve with new system.
That's patetic, you want fair racing and fun racing, but you don't like racing. Impossible.
You spent more than 3 hours writing your wishes here. You could use it on wanking. But no, it's boring to you. Bored players will never get fair competition, that's the fact.

The only thing I could agree to change is average of 3 laps. There is no big difference between that and classic wanking. Maybe average is even more lucky shit, and yeah, it maybe uses too much time.
Also, just imagine how will it looks on some track that hasn't such a nice starting line like this track has. It will be so frustrating.
Maybe 1 lap will be more challenging for all, especially for rookies. And, even if we include luck factor there, it's not something to complain about. It's good to see surprises sometimes.
Anyway, I think average of 3 laps has it's own beauty too, but it's just kinda not practical enough.

[Del]

Btw, once again, I don't really know what will you get with unreleased tracks. I think it's even more unfair to play. Some of drivers aren't able to optimize their PCs for that kind of playing.
Some drivers aren't able to wank 70 hours in the week before the race.
Unreleased track gives advantage to players who have big monitors where they can set small zoom which is very important thing.
Unreleased track not giving you an unlimited wank advantage is the real problem, isn't it?
Also, I hate to calculate anything during the driving.
From what I remember the fuel strategy didn't change pretty much at all during the last season. There's no reason strategy would vary wildly now unless there's a track that clearly favours cutting corners.
That's patetic. I already see that I 'll never finish the race. I never finished the race in the F1 racing server that we have now, so League will be even more patetic for me.
May I humbly suggest you don't even do the practice/quali/race then? Let those play who want to play.

Del and Lux are always speaking about time consumption: "I's not fair that someone drive 70 hours and someone just 1..bla bla".
Well, that's impossible to change. If I want, I will still play 70 hours, but offline and increase my speed. So, you just want to ruin our fun to wank online, cause that's all you can achieve with new system.
It's fair if you increase your skill by wanking (or racing) offline or online but to actually require one to dedicate lots of time to wanking (for those in the top15-20 who may or may not qualify) to get to race isn't ideal IMO. You can still wank and race online and offline (if the servers are kept up. If not, you can just host your own server).
That's patetic, you want fair racing and fun racing, but you don't like racing. Impossible.
Where did I say I don't like racing? I don't like wanking but that doesn't mean I don't like other kinds of racing.
You spent more than 3 hours writing your wishes here. You could use it on wanking. But no, it's boring to you. Bored players will never get fair competition, that's the fact.
Let's see..

Please forget prejudices, arguing, etc and vote basing on what would be the best for the league (not just for your chances to qualify to Pro Race!).

I'm trying to suggest it would be a fairer method of qualification if it didn't depend on the amount of time you can spend on wanking. You already get an advantage from wanking so you'll qualify for the race anyway. Why do you even care?

The only thing I could agree to change is average of 3 laps. There is no big difference between that and classic wanking. Maybe average is even more lucky shit, and yeah, it maybe uses too much time.
Also, just imagine how will it looks on some track that hasn't such a nice starting line like this track has. It will be so frustrating.
You get to decide if you want to for consistency with many average laps or try to get lucky with fewer tries but better potential times.
Maybe 1 lap will be more challenging for all, especially for rookies. And, even if we include luck factor there, it's not something to complain about. It's good to see surprises sometimes.
Anyway, I think average of 3 laps has it's own beauty too, but it's just kinda not practical enough.

Underlined parts: I really have no idea if you're speaking in favour of or against the 3-lap average. Do you know what practical means?

[Whiplash]

I can't believe that dede started to listen Del's stupid arguing and made such a topic.
My final decision. I will play whatever Del hates. I 'll not play whatever he likes.

[PAOLO]

I vote for the 1 solution: actual one.
Really nice to train with f1 cars!

Only i haven't clear if pro race with "UNRELEASED TRACK" means that the track is different from the one used for qualify and rookie race.
And if yes, why?
Bye

[Pingu]

I would go for option 2, but you will always have people too late,, or are like ""sec, one minute".. postpone postpone etc... harder for admins to organize, more frustration for the players or admins themselves.

If the previous is not a problem then even more favour to option 2.

[Whiplash]

Only i haven't clear if pro race with "UNRELEASED TRACK" means that the track is different from the one used for qualify and rookie race.
And if yes, why?
Bye

Yeah, that's the true. It's because rookie race will go 2 hours before pro and someone of pros could connect to rookie server and download the track, analyse it and practice on it 2 hours before his race.
That's why rookies will drive pro's track always 1 week later.

[Jaykoq]

- good players with limited time will use rookie race as a real qualifier -> no real challange for rookies
- possibility that some qualified players will miss the Pro race, leaving additional free spots

For sure, my vote still goes to 1.
I just want to say that both of these disadvantages can be solved on a cute way.
1. Merge the rookie and pro races to one competition. I don't think that somebody will be demotivated by 21. position in general, and motivated more by 1. place in rookie. Every normal person will treat it the same.
But if you still insist on having it, why not to make a line under the 20th place. 21. position should be changed to 1. , 22. to 2. and so on.
...
19. 30 pts
20. 25 pts
-------------
1. 25 pts
2. 20 pts
...

Read last post, I can explain it to you thru MSN (on Croatian) if you don't understand this well.
viewtopic.php?t=2353&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=100

ps, my vote goes to option 1
option 2 is not bad idea, but I think that new players won't drive as much as old school drivers, so that might be little discouraging to them :/

[PAOLO]

Only i haven't clear if pro race with "UNRELEASED TRACK" means that the track is different from the one used for qualify and rookie race.
And if yes, why?
Bye

Yeah, that's the true. It's because rookie race will go 2 hours before pro and someone of pros could connect to rookie server and download the track, analyse it and practice on it 2 hours before his race.
That's why rookies will drive pro's track always 1 week later.

Thanks for explanation!
Anyway my doubt still remain: which sense in changing tracks at the moment of pro race?
It isn't more logical to do qualify session, rookie and pro race all with the same track?

It's only curiosity: I don't want to be critic!!

[Del]

I can't believe that dede started to listen Del's stupid arguing and made such a topic.
My final decision. I will play whatever Del hates. I 'll not play whatever he likes.

To be sure there's no love lost between us. dede thought the idea lux posted had potential even before I read and commented on it as you can read here. I wish I could remember what it was we were discussing a month or two back and you said you would do something but in the end didn't follow up on it... Probably had something to do with LVP admin rights. Your promises really have no effect on anybody any more... Otherwise I'd say I like wanking. In fact I'll say I like wanking if you promise never to wank again. I actually do like wanking. And playing TS. And IRC. And these forums. Bye forever, Wippe.

I would go for option 2, but you will always have people too late,, or are like ""sec, one minute".. postpone postpone etc... harder for admins to organize, more frustration for the players or admins themselves.

One thing I don't understand about event organization... We can have a planned 3-minute break between sessions but do we really have to wait for someone to smoke a fag and just when they're coming back someone else has to have a pee and just when they're coming back someone has to have dinner... Especially when it's practice or quali you could just start at the planned time; it's usually their fault if they miss the start. With the race it's a bit different but you could still kick if they're taking too long.

I vote for the 1 solution: actual one.
Really nice to train with f1 cars!

Only i haven't clear if pro race with "UNRELEASED TRACK" means that the track is different from the one used for qualify and rookie race.
And if yes, why?
Bye

You can still train with F1 cars even if option 2 is chosen. Unreleased track means that it's a new track so everyone has equal opportunity and the result is decided by skill, not how many hours you have wanked the track in the week prior to the race.

It isn't more logical to do qualify session, rookie and pro race all with the same track?

Qualifying session and pro race are done on the same track. Rookie race is done on a different track so the race track proper can be kept secret until the last possible moment so nobody gets an unfair advantage from knowing the track.

ps, my vote goes to option 1
option 2 is not bad idea, but I think that new players won't drive as much as old school drivers, so that might be little discouraging to them :/

Option 2 requires no wanking. Option 1 does. Option 2 would be less discouraging to players who drive less.

Maybe this option 1/2 thing was bad after all... Maybe everyone should have been required to explain their choice in their own words. Oh well...

Could you please not vote if you don't understand the difference between the two options. Ask first if you think there's anything you may not understand.

[GR8Arjen]

As you all know, my vote will be option 1

It's not only one of the most fair ways to qualify. (Like Whip says, people could still train 70 hours offline and have advantage)

It is one week of lot's of activity, which draws lot's of new players as we see every time happen.

New players see the times of other players so they instantly know if there driving a nice pace, or a poor one, so they know they have still work to do.

They see as spectator the laps of the fast players which they can learn from, and they can ask for advice to improve there skills. This results in better newer players in general, and also veteren players learn from the fastest guys around without needing to download replays etc.

It makes it possible to put in your time whenever you want. You have one entire week.

You have the final moments of qualifing were lot's of players try an ultimate attempt to get in the cut. People that get pushed out also try new attempts to get back in. The atmosphere is always awsome, as are the pressure, and other emotions that evolve. People are suporting there teammates and friends, cheering for them when succes and sometimes even wonders happen. it is an event of it's own!
Even to watch this all happening as a spectator is quite entertaining.

It worked out perfectly last year, which resulted in a great league. Don't fix things that aint broken.

[misterpom]

I said everything I had to say about this on the other topic. I won't repeat everything again. I vote option 2. I wish there was an option 3: without the useless and nonsensical tyre damage.

It makes no sense to have the first race with the actual rule only to change the rules for the second race. In any way you think of it, it makes no sense. It should be one rule for all the season. Just postpone it. It's not like it haven't been done before. Just push it to the next weekend.

We never had that much dissent over the F1 season, I think. Probably it's related to the bad changes that were made.

[Pingu]

Option 1 with the wanking track being the previous race track all the time (except first race) would also be very cool... like others said it would invite new players to practice more

[GR8Arjen]

Option 1 with the wanking track being the previous race track all the time (except first race) would also be very cool...

That was/is the general idea.

[Ivan Drago]

I'm for option 2, mostly because reasons explained already. And my reason is not that I'm never going to make it with option 1, I don't mind about that. The main reasons are that with option 2 there is actually the risk that some of the wankers wouldn't make it. And that is a REAL RISK, I mean, who ever believed that you couldn't make 3 good laps in an 8 laps race...?

I'm sure that wankers like Arjen or Wippe are against it because they are afraid that it will ruin their dream of success in the league but anyway this would bring in the factor of risk that exists in real F1 as well. A minor reason is also that the F1 wank wouldn't be robbing people from other servers anymore. It's actually quite annoying as the league is kinda long and the player base isn't that big at all.

[GR8Arjen]

II'm sure that wankers like Arjen or Wippe are against it because they are afraid that it will ruin their dream of success in the league but anyway this would bring in the factor of risk that exists in real F1 as well. A minor reason is also that the F1 wank wouldn't be robbing people from other servers anymore. It's actually quite annoying as the league is kinda long and the player base isn't that big at all.

No no no!!! You mistake me wrong.

I don't have personal performance fears within my motivations.

My interests are only to protect the league, the weekly event, (atmosphere) and the training/introduction of new players.

Unlike others, I care about more then just myself.

On a second note:

I am not gifted with lot's of tallent, I am an average player that is able to be competative putting in lot's of training. It is my motivation that sometimes rewards me with good results. It's a very satisfying reward when if all works out and I make less mistakes. This is one of my key points of this system. It rewards motivated people over the unmotivated people, because it improves people's skills!

It also improves the competition, because it makes people better.

Suggesting that people could also train offline to get better sounds fair, but is far from realistic. The competition the pre quali has build into, is the best way to motivate the players to become better, and it is a huge billboard advertising the league itself.

I don't want to bash, but I don't see any of the possitive points I mention happening in option 2

[misterpom]

Arjen,

I don't have as much time as I had to wank. Also, it's the end of semester and there are many things to study as I approach final exams.

I don't really see the point of wanking in one track and then racing in another track. To me it's called waste of time. Last season we wanked a track but we would race that same track, right? Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me but I think that was the case. I don't see why wank TSE_Xianlao only to play TSE_Reirocks, even if it's a totally different track.

You can practice offline. The argument that practicing in Xianlao will make you more apt to race an unreleased track makes no sense. You can master the car by driving in ANY track. On the other hand, if you want to master a track you have to drive the track itself, which won't be the case since it's unreleased. So the whole argument is pointless. Those who want to wank can do it anytime. Those who don't would be forced to wank only to get a top 15 position.

If it was an "released track" system it would make sense. Since it's not, I'm still voting option 2.