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Full Contact Championship (FCC) #3

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Luke

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Re: Full Contact Championship (FCC) #3

PostSun Sep 18, 2016 6:04 pm

Im in
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Whiplash

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Re: Full Contact Championship (FCC) #3

PostSun Sep 18, 2016 6:20 pm

To check the estimated time for the next event properly HERE, you have to be logged in on the homepage first. Otherwise it might give you a wrong result. It's some bug, I guess.
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vitinvr

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Re: Full Contact Championship (FCC) #3

PostSun Sep 18, 2016 6:21 pm

i'm in
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Whiplash

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Re: Full Contact Championship (FCC) #3

PostSun Sep 18, 2016 6:23 pm

vitinvr wrote:i'm in

OK. Nice pic, btw. :) I hope it's not some forum bug.
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Whiplash

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Re: Full Contact Championship (FCC) #3

PostSun Sep 18, 2016 11:40 pm

Standings are updated and videos are uploaded. Report any problem.

About event:
It was quite fun. We won't let Mike dominate like this next time. :evil: Anyway, congrats on sure win. :wink:
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Mike Nike

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Re: Full Contact Championship (FCC) #3

PostMon Sep 19, 2016 12:13 am

Code: Select all
1.     [x] Mike Nike     192


2.     kikiriki    149
3.     Silva        148
4.     [x] Sig    146
5.     Oompa        144
6.     [x] Whiplash     142


7.     [BEEF] JonnO     129
8.     Matic        128
9.     [fS]Hevonen     126
10.     Serif          124

11.     Azev        117
11.     Mamma Nera     117
13.     Torello     115

14.     \/\/||_|_     111
14.     Ninjinha__br     111
16.     [BEEF] Shyguy     109
16.     Lag Lag Lag Papi109
18.     Carlos Sainz Jr 106

19.     Kid Masters     100


20.     max tre     49


That indeed went quite well for me. 48 pts lead at some point. Only a few beauty mistakes, mixed with NO lag, no warps (only here and there some serverdiff autocorrection visible), 1-2 days of decent practicing and i assume a decent amount of luck AND a decent amount of bad luck for all other drivers^^.
But i got quite a 25 pts bonus by having a big pole on some track, where reversed cup order was not working in the way, FCC might want it to.

Especially unhappy to see the pretty stable driving Matic did not get AT LEAST 2nd place, after getting only 1st and 2nd cupplaces the whole day.
WILL with lag problems, Papi and Azev (11th, under his expectations, i can imagine) likely with troubles as well..
Matic only 8th, Hevonen (group A winner in front of me) only 9th - the result just feels so randomized.
Whiplash, winning group B with a huge lead, also only 6th...
JonnO...hashtag FeelTheBeef the laughing 7th i think :D
Oompa, after 112ish points, solid 2nd place, getting a row of horrible raceresults...
kikiriki (sV) and Silva, i probably underestimated, because i was not really active this year and did not see them performing.
Shyguy, still hiding his real uberskillz, decided to not show em off today. Also he must have had big warps, still uploading some punaballvideo..
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Carlos Sainz Jr

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Re: Full Contact Championship (FCC) #3

PostMon Sep 19, 2016 2:22 am

If I still have these disconnection problems I think I'll quit this #FCC. I've lost sooooo many points cus of this, it's really frustrating.
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Re: Full Contact Championship (FCC) #3

PostMon Sep 19, 2016 9:10 am

Mike Nike wrote:
Code: Select all
1.     [x] Mike Nike     192


2.     kikiriki    149
3.     Silva        148
4.     [x] Sig    146
5.     Oompa        144
6.     [x] Whiplash     142


7.     [BEEF] JonnO     129
8.     Matic        128
9.     [fS]Hevonen     126
10.     Serif          124

11.     Azev        117
11.     Mamma Nera     117
13.     Torello     115

14.     \/\/||_|_     111
14.     Ninjinha__br     111
16.     [BEEF] Shyguy     109
16.     Lag Lag Lag Papi109
18.     Carlos Sainz Jr 106

19.     Kid Masters     100


20.     max tre     49


That indeed went quite well for me. 48 pts lead at some point. Only a few beauty mistakes, mixed with NO lag, no warps (only here and there some serverdiff autocorrection visible), 1-2 days of decent practicing and i assume a decent amount of luck AND a decent amount of bad luck for all other drivers^^.
But i got quite a 25 pts bonus by having a big pole on some track, where reversed cup order was not working in the way, FCC might want it to.

Especially unhappy to see the pretty stable driving Matic did not get AT LEAST 2nd place, after getting only 1st and 2nd cupplaces the whole day.
WILL with lag problems, Papi and Azev (11th, under his expectations, i can imagine) likely with troubles as well..
Matic only 8th, Hevonen (group A winner in front of me) only 9th - the result just feels so randomized.
Whiplash, winning group B with a huge lead, also only 6th...
JonnO...hashtag FeelTheBeef the laughing 7th i think :D
Oompa, after 112ish points, solid 2nd place, getting a row of horrible raceresults...
kikiriki (sV) and Silva, i probably underestimated, because i was not really active this year and did not see them performing.
Shyguy, still hiding his real uberskillz, decided to not show em off today. Also he must have had big warps, still uploading some punaballvideo..


I thought it was going to be harder for you to win, but congrats on that huge lead!
Also Silva was very close to be 2nd, I think he is becoming the new Matic :lol:

When racing with 20 pilots luck is an important factor, and I did not have luck, but an FCC it's always fun! I missed this cups! Thank you, Whiplash! :)
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Will

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Re: Full Contact Championship (FCC) #3

PostMon Sep 19, 2016 9:11 am

Congratulations to Mike Nike, that looked easy. Last FCC champ and vice champ out of the podium but i'm sure they will come back stronger.
Lag wasn't much of a problem for me, the real problem was that if a track had a hole to be stuck... i'll find my way there, or better yet, someone showed me the way in the mayhem of the first corners. Four races i didn't finished because of that, but at least i had azev to make me company for some of those while we saw everyone else complete the race.
Matic and hevonen looked very strong in the previous races but that didn't translate into the final. It's always a bit chaotic.
Silva only lost 2nd at the very last race, although he was probably racing with rage because of...external factors,that i also don't want to talk about. Right azev?
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Re: Full Contact Championship (FCC) #3

PostMon Sep 19, 2016 1:30 pm

Will wrote:Silva only lost 2nd at the very last race, although he was probably racing with rage because of...external factors,that i also don't want to talk about. Right azev?


Hahahaha

Silva is imune to that, but I bet your cup was influenced by "The Brain" (private joke) :lol: :lol: :lol: :twisted:
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Whiplash

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Re: Full Contact Championship (FCC) #3

PostSat Sep 24, 2016 2:39 pm

I'm quite sure I won't be available on 2.10.2016 to organize 3rd event. I'll need an admin amateur to replace me, or we will have to reschedule or skip it.
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Re: Full Contact Championship (FCC) #3

PostSun Sep 25, 2016 11:08 pm

RIP my good Div 1. That 11st race killed me :(
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Whiplash

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Re: Full Contact Championship (FCC) #3

PostMon Sep 26, 2016 12:26 am

Videos are uploaded and standings are updated. I decided to show only best 1 event (because that way the standings are more relevant).
Congrats to Matic for a great win. It was probably the most tight event in FCC history.

Btw, I want you all to analyze the semi-last race of Division 1 cup (track: pu_Erasus). There was a situation were Sig attacked Mike in a "not clear" way. That's why I want you all to bring up your opinions.

My opinion:
There is a reason why I would threat it as a particularly nasty move. Sig was already on he bottom of the cup standings (14. place), so his chances to control the top positions were almost equal to zero. That's why focusing on Mike seemed like the way to affect the overall competition standings - which is a problematic goal. We all know that each of us can miss one event, but we shouldn't use that fact to ruin the event of another player.
In case where Sig would be like 5-6. instead of 14. - I would take it as a great shot and interesting tactic.
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Mike Nike

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Re: Full Contact Championship (FCC) #3

PostMon Sep 26, 2016 12:42 am

https://youtu.be/rG8CPXQbfbE

video description more readable:

race 11 of the cup: Mike got offroad.
Instead of steering right and keeping the position, Sig gone offroad to cost Mike additional +-2 seconds and x positions.
That cost himself 7 or 8 positions in this scene.
Being shocked, Mike did not check the cup points of place 4-10 after the race, not realizing he should drive the race safe to the end, being in ~9th position in race 12.
He gone for a more cupleader attacking "all or nothing" risk mode and lost 5 places and ended up in 6th cup place instead of 2nd.
Question: should we allow this self sabotaging move as overall cup strategy?
Sig's cup was already messed up, so it might have been wise to sabotage me, so he has more chances to win FCC #3, even though his first event was not so strong anyway.
No matter what the rule will be - it felt like the rule did not exist yet, so this sabotage move felt like a ban to me, considering the normal FCC LVP Server rules. What you think0

My opinion:
- even though the move felt like a ban to me, i havent made my mind up yet if i would want him to be banned. I'd go for a no, unless there has been a rule which tells he has to be banned. I am not sure if there is such a rule, because i was too lazy studying the rules before the cup again :P
- new rule: i like the strategic part of the sabotage possibility. Fighting in a 12 races cup for the cupwin and you are only fighting vs 1 guy for that win and there are 8 more players around and you need your opponent to finish 3rd place instead of 2nd, then you like to block him, so he loses that deciding position. But if i would be in Matic skin, i wouldnt feel so happy winning a cup, knowing someone sabotaged a strong hunter of the cuplead. Congrats anyways in this case - i think after ruining 6 pts in J_Slammer and a bad race later getting 15th or so, i would have probably not won the cup anyway, no matter Sig sabotaged me or not. But it woulda been more close on average..
Havent considered everything yet, but my first instinct is like 20% allow this sabotage, 80% against the rule. In the end, i dont want major blocking or bw driving cars in the race, where, in the final cupresults you just see the points and no sidenode of how many points some player dropped due to a sabotage. I prefer cupresults are a mirror of someones skill and every side information of how many warps/lags someone had is welcome to determine the actual skill or performance of a player. Mentioning that: i felt bad when streaming last 3 days and skipping to tell only +-2 times that i had more warps than usual on a specific situation. This cup, testing to stream on twitch, while skyping with up to 5 others (cool BEEF experience with Jonno, Sam and Shyguy btw!), i had no cruical big warps in the final cup, i think. The car does not drive so smooth though, so i already had to reduce the resolution to 640x400 when streaming. Hopefully, in some way though, twitching might be a way to get more players having fun playing Turbo Sliders.

fyi:
http://www.twitch.tv/mikenikeinc

FCC event (https://www.twitch.tv/mikenikeinc/v/91391779) - pity, you hardly hear other people from Skype, so it sometimes sounds like i laugh for no reason or so
Last edited by Mike Nike on Mon Sep 26, 2016 1:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Sig

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Re: Full Contact Championship (FCC) #3

PostMon Sep 26, 2016 1:16 am

Mike Nike wrote:https://youtu.be/rG8CPXQbfbE

video description more readable:

race 11 of the cup: Mike got offroad.
Instead of steering right and keeping the position, Sig gone offroad to cost Mike additional +-2 seconds and x positions.
That cost himself 7 or 8 positions in this scene.
Being shocked, Mike did not check the cup points of place 4-10 after the race, not realizing he should drive the race safe to the end, being in ~9th position in race 12.
He gone for a more cupleader attacking "all or nothing" risk mode and lost 5 places and ended up in 6th cup place instead of 2nd.
Question: should we allow this self sabotaging move as overall cup strategy?
Sig's cup was already messed up, so it might have been wise to sabotage me, so he has more chances to win FCC #3, even though his first event was not so strong anyway.
No matter what the rule will be - it felt like the rule did not exist yet, so this sabotage move felt like a ban to me, considering the normal FCC LVP Server rules. What you think0

My opinion:
- even though the move felt like a ban to me, i havent made my mind up yet if i would want him to be banned. I'd go for a no, unless there has been a rule which tells he has to be banned. I am not sure if there is such a rule, because i was too lazy studying the rules before the cup again :P
- new rule: i like the strategic part of the sabotage possibility. Fighting in a 12 races cup for the cupwin and you are only fighting vs 1 guy for that win and there are 8 more players around and you need your opponent to finish 3rd place instead of 2nd, then you like to block him, so he loses that deciding position. But if i would be in Matic skin, i wouldnt feel so happy winning a cup, knowing someone sabotaged a strong hunter of the cuplead. Congrats anyways in this case - i think after ruining 6 pts in J_Slammer and a bad race later getting 15th or so, i would have probably not won the cup anyway, no matter Sig sabotaged me or not. But it woulda been more close on average..
Havent considered everything yet, but my first instinct is like 20% allow this sabotage, 80% against the rule. In the end, i dont want major blocking or bw driving cars in the race, where, in the final cupresults you just see the points and no sidenode of how many points some player dropped due to a sabotage. I prefer cupresults are a mirror of someones skill and every side information of how many warps/lags someone had is welcome to determine the actual skill or performance of a player.




Sabotage? Seriously that? Again crying? Kikiriki did the same thing to me in two races last FCC # 3 and you think I cried? This is FCC my friend. I really hit to get you out of the race and pass the front and only one race, not chase you. In the FCC # 2 you ever cried because Tijny hit you 2 times and now me. I think you better start running when you have a cup in Fair Play or Ghost mode. I did not infringe any rule, just hit you by 2 times.
Sig, since 2006.
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Mike Nike

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Re: Full Contact Championship (FCC) #3

PostMon Sep 26, 2016 1:36 am

Sig wrote:Sabotage? Seriously that? Again crying? Kikiriki did the same thing to me in two races last FCC # 3 and you think I cried? This is FCC my friend. I really hit to get you out of the race and pass the front and only one race, not chase you. In the FCC # 2 you ever cried because Tijny hit you 2 times and now me. I think you better start running when you have a cup in Fair Play or Ghost mode. I did not infringe any rule, just hit you by 2 times.


Before my post, I already told Whip that i think you probably did not realize you would lose so many positions by that move.
Going offroad or bw (for a short time) to hit someone in front of you or behind you can be a nice strategy for race and cup positions, sometimes even if it means to lose 10 race positions.
Also, if i would have seen you doing that to Whip or someone else, i would have prefered a conversation about it, too.
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Sig

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Re: Full Contact Championship (FCC) #3

PostMon Sep 26, 2016 5:03 am

Honestly, I have nothing more to talk about it. Each has their opinion and what I did is considered "sabotage" I go out of the championship because to me it decharacterizes the purpose of Full Contact. Have a nice day.
Sig, since 2006.
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Mike Nike

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Re: Full Contact Championship (FCC) #3

PostMon Sep 26, 2016 8:06 am

If you want to hit me to get me out of the race and want to pass the front - that might actually lead to an average better race result in some situations. Basicly a fine strategy.
In that race though, it feels like a decent miscalculation, with 2 laps to go in that particular middle long track and so many cars somewhat visible (i doubt you drive in 320x200 and zoom 2.0) and close behind you.
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Re: Full Contact Championship (FCC) #3

PostMon Sep 26, 2016 9:04 am

Pls stop crying Sig always plays like this no matter if there was Mike Nike, Kid Masters, Barza or the damn reirom, or fatty ore Pope Francis he will push him to the fuckin Saturn. Yes also if you were already in Jupiter. He's an asshole but that's the damn full contact
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Whiplash

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Re: Full Contact Championship (FCC) #3

PostMon Sep 26, 2016 9:22 am

Well, I'm not, actually, sure if he would do it to any other driver. He probably would if it was just a regular unofficial cup. Good thing about his move was the fact that it wasn't done by backward driving, nor by blocking. It felt more like a situation where he couldn't resist to make another deadly attack.
So, maybe that could lead us to the rule we're looking for:
- "It's allowed to focus on any player as long as it's done by an attacking approach".
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Hevonen

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Re: Full Contact Championship (FCC) #3

PostMon Sep 26, 2016 12:54 pm

Doesn't look very fair to me, because he basicly sacrificed his own race for not much reason. In fact, I wouldn't allow this kind of move in any circumstances, no matter who hits who, no matter cup standings.

4576.jpg
4576.jpg (47.01 KiB) Viewed 2931 times

This is just too far away from racing line to push. Reirom would be banned for this for sure, but im not saying Sig should be banned of course. :mrgreen:
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Will

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Re: Full Contact Championship (FCC) #3

PostTue Sep 27, 2016 5:57 pm

Controversy? Good! 8)

From time to time, this kind of move comes to the fore, so I'll just say what i said before.
In my view, Sig did nothing 'technically' against the rules (barely). He didn't BW (barely) and didn't waited a lap to mess with an opponent. Having said that, I personally hate this king of move, and the reason is that it's to much of an 'anti-racing' move, and on its essence this is a racing game, this is not Xbumps. In real racing we see all kind of dirty moves but not this one. Making another rule for FC is always complicated and the only one i could think to prevent this would be: 'You can't leave the track to hit another opponent that is already outside the track'.
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Re: Full Contact Championship (FCC) #3

PostTue Sep 27, 2016 6:03 pm

Will wrote:Controversy? Good! 8)

From time to time, this kind of move comes to the fore, so I'll just say what i said before.
In my view, Sig did nothing 'technically' against the rules (barely). He didn't BW (barely) and didn't waited a lap to mess with an opponent. Having said that, I personally hate this king of move, and the reason is that it's to much of an 'anti-racing' move, and on its essence this is a racing game, this is not Xbumps. In real racing we see all kind of dirty moves but not this one. Making another rule for FC is always complicated and the only one i could think to prevent this would be: 'You can't leave the track to hit another opponent that is already outside the track'.


What he said.

So, Mike, for FC this is a normal move, I don't like it but I don't see nothing wrong.

Whip, you still need an admin for next Sunday? I heard Will is free for that! :lol:
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Whiplash

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Re: Full Contact Championship (FCC) #3

PostTue Sep 27, 2016 7:07 pm

Will wrote:'You can't leave the track to hit another opponent'.

OK, I guess this can be adopted. So, Sig, warning!

Azev wrote:Whip, you still need an admin for next Sunday? I heard Will is free for that! :lol:

I'll see if Mike can replace me. If not, then anyone is welcomed.
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Mike Nike

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Re: Full Contact Championship (FCC) #3

PostThu Sep 29, 2016 2:05 am

Thx for all the opinions so far.
I'm not entirely happy with that rule update or suggestion by Whip, since i have a little eye for leaks and exploits.

The problem:
What is track, road, racing line, when do you leave the track - all those definition thingies..
With Whips rule, for example: are you leaving the track when bw-hitting someone in an upcoming 270 degree curve around a small object?

One solution:
If you ask me, if a move is beneficial for your personal race or cup results ...or overall cup results, then the move could be allowed (but if you accidently miscalculate by a certain amount, some warning could be there). Such moves might include after-bridgetrap camping to block jumpers or actually backward driving to make people get trapped - no matter if you as the aggressive driver are in last place or not in that race. But if we do not want that, then the rule could be something like "you may hurt your own total racetime as long as it is beneficial for your race or cup or overallcup position, except in the cases: bw-driving*, etc" (*bw-driving would then be explained)



Another weird thing that happened and i did not know was possible:
https://youtu.be/z4SByzeCTtA

In this case Jonno (and Shyguy?) make Mike Nike crash? Or did Mike crash at bridgeside, so he is temporarily in lower height level and collides with Jonno?

Or is that some kinda game bug which needs to be fixed? Anyways, it came pretty surprising :D ...luckily i still won.
I am not sure anymore, but i think Shyguy or so was surprised about the collision as well.

Anyways, what is allowed being trapped?
Example: last race, you are 1st place in cup and only cup place 2 is hunting you.
You are trapped.
Now in this track you could (maybe?) try to make place 2 crash.
In other tracks (jumptraps) you could position your car at the end of the jump to help place 3-20 to make the jump, in case they jump too short. And if place 2 jumps, you go out of the way to higher the chance of place 2 of getting trapped.
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