Full Contact: changing tracks pack

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What tracks do you want on this server?

racing tracks
5
29%
fun tracks
8
47%
keep crazzy tracks
4
24%
 
Total votes: 17

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iBlaze²
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Post by iBlaze² » Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:33 am

Hi Whiplash, I have to say that I both agree and disagree with the points raised in your post so let's start with what I agree with.

iB_Cry: you're completely right on this one. I can't comment on the sound since I've always played with sound off but I can comment on the track itself. When I was testing it, it didn't seem too crazy. However, when it came up in the server the other night it was incredibly bad. Probably one of the worst tracks I've made actually and I completely agree that this one should be removed. There is no point replacing poor tracks with even worse ones!

iB_Box: now, it's right that it didn't take very long at all to make this one - but actually I can't see the relevance of that point. But anyway, this track is simply a normal full-contact track with lots of crossovers and lots of "shit going on". I wasn't actually expecting this one to be added to the server, hence why I didn't post it in this thread in the first place. However, when it came up the other night, it was actually quite enjoyable and funny and it worked so I think this one should stay.

Now to your point about avoiding using arrows, bounces, crossings, etc. and I'm sorry, but that is one of the most ridiculous things I've read (and that's including all of the Reirom and ILIKETURTLES posts). You have to understand that these elements are what distinguishes a full contact track from a normal race track. Avoiding a collision at a crossing is a key skill of full contact racing and you need to learn it. Bounces are funny, even if they can get a bit crazy if used too much (as in iB_Cry for example). And I'm really not sure what your problem with arrows is, since these actually help players find their way around a track rather than make them get lost. As an example - as many crossings as there are in iB_Box, nobody got lost when we played it, because the arrows were there. In fact, you could do well to include a few arrows on your tracks sometimes rather than simply telling people to follow Janne to avoid getting lost.

Anyway, we've all agreed that the track pack needed changing. Allow me to demonstrate this using a scale of craziness from 0-10 (where 0 is Arena and 10 is ID_Random). The old track pack mainly had level 8, 9 and 10 tracks. You were right to make this thread and suggest a revamp because, although it is funny to play those tracks, it does become boring and you do lose players from servers if every track is too crazy. What we've created from this thread is a track pack with a great range of tracks from level 2-9, removing the completely crazy level 10's but keeping some really funny tracks in too. And you're right in that it's been a great move - there has been a lot more activity since we changed this. But at the same time as having all level 8, 9 and 10 tracks wasn't a good idea, removing all tracks with a craziness level of 5 or above is also not a good idea, because then you once again lose the variety and it becomes less interesting.

Now, you may not like tracks with a level 8 or 9 craziness, but there are many players who do. So far, you have been the only one against such tracks but I've seen Janne, Keppana and me all defend them. Tijny agreed we should keep some of the more crazy tracks too and I'm willing to bet that if Matti had a voice then he might agree. The thing is with full contact - you should never take it seriously. The whole idea of it is for it to be funny and the funny tracks help that. In fact, in this server you should probably remove points because the only winner there is he who has the most fun (that's not a serious suggestion btw, it's an example).

To put it simply, you've complained about the completely crazy tracks - ID_Random for example - and we've removed them. You've complained about the long tracks and we've removed them. You've complained about poor quality tracks and we've removed them. Now we have a track pack with much greater variety so that you should stumble across tracks that you don't like much less often. And whilst I agree that we shouldn't replace poor tracks with poor tracks (iB_Cry), it's now time for you to comprimise and meet us halfway. As Janne said, we can't please everybody, but we've gone a long way towards pleasing you so you should let us keep some of the tracks that we find funny too.

(Sorry for the essay, but there were a lot of points I felt needed discussing here and I hope you can understand our point of view like we have understood yours.)

Tijny
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Post by Tijny » Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:59 am

iBlaze² wrote:... and I'm willing to bet that if Matti had a voice then he might agree.
This made me laugh so hard :D

Anyway, your post is completely in sync with my opinion. I removed iB_Cry and added Wh_Stones and 2 out of 3 iB_Zanton tracks.

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Jan
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Post by Jan » Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:28 pm

I agree with iBlaze. The whole point of Full Contact would be gone if the crossings, bounces and arrows would be removed. When Maunokasa began to host his Full Contact server years ago it was probably the best time I ever had in TS in my career. It was something new and you could do anything in the server. Either fight for the points or just keep beefing dede.

For the server to be closer to that it needs tracks that allow "beefing" in as many places as possible and also tracks which offer something new and surprising which might be difficult nowadays as people have seen more different things in the tracks than in the past. The other important thing to bring the Full Contact atmosphere to the server is the players' attitude. Everyone should forget all fair play shit and if they wish they should be allowed to just target one player and take him out for example and nobody should take anyhing seriously at all. Basically, more craziness = more fun. (By craziness I mean somehow "controlled" craziness. Not pointless bouncing for example. At least not too much. :P)

Oh and by the way, some old school Full Contact player should dig up the classic BowserCastle somewhere. I don't remember it's exact name though (probably Cu_BowserCastle?). I can't get it anywhere as I have my old tracks in a different computer which is broken.

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Whiplash
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Post by Whiplash » Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:47 pm

Tijny wrote:
iBlaze² wrote:... and I'm willing to bet that if Matti had a voice then he might agree.
This made me laugh so hard :D

Same here. :) And, I agree, Matti likes all those crazy tracks.
Janne wrote:On the other hand I just laugh when my first place turns into 8th on last crossroad before finish.

But what would a newcomer think when it happen? "This is too stupid...esc."

iBlaze² wrote:Now to your point about avoiding using arrows, bounces, crossings, etc. and I'm sorry, but that is one of the most ridiculous things I've read (and that's including all of the Reirom and ILIKETURTLES posts). You have to understand that these elements are what distinguishes a full contact track from a normal race track. Avoiding a collision at a crossing is a key skill of full contact racing and you need to learn it.

With some tracks you need to be god to do that, or even more then that - Chuck Norris. And that's exactly what I'm talking about. I sad "to avoid" just because it's the safest way to not see new stupid tracks. To make an good track with crossings, track maker needs luck or great skill and long analyses or tests. There are many tracks with bounces, crossings etc. that I also like (ChaosIV, Fox-Shortone, Jn_Rinkula, Trapezoids, J_Destruction, J_Keskikurvi etc.). The best examples are K-makkara2 and Twister. To see the difference with an stupid track called K-Xmas just analyse that track. You can see that if you are in crossing zone, you have to look at 2 ways what is impossible with 10+ cars, so all you need there is luck.
Those two tracks that I mentioned gives you chance to predict other drivers and even correct your fails because crossings are placed in zones with low speed and with good prediction visibility.

iBlaze² wrote:Bounces are funny, even if they can get a bit crazy if used too much (as in iB_Cry for example).

And "avoiding" means not use it that much.

iBlaze² wrote:And I'm really not sure what your problem with arrows is, since these actually help players find their way around a track rather than make them get lost.As an example - as many crossings as there are in iB_Box, nobody got lost when we played it, because the arrows were there. In fact, you could do well to include a few arrows on your tracks sometimes rather than simply telling people to follow Janne to avoid getting lost.

Fallow this rule: People can't get lost if you made a good track. Few arrows sometimes are necessary, but try to avoid using them (use more obstacles or something).

iBlaze² wrote:Anyway, we've all agreed that the track pack needed changing. Allow me to demonstrate this using a scale of craziness from 0-10 (where 0 is Arena and 10 is ID_Random). The old track pack mainly had level 8, 9 and 10 tracks. You were right to make this thread and suggest a revamp because, although it is funny to play those tracks, it does become boring and you do lose players from servers if every track is too crazy. What we've created from this thread is a track pack with a great range of tracks from level 2-9, removing the completely crazy level 10's but keeping some really funny tracks in too. And you're right in that it's been a great move - there has been a lot more activity since we changed this. But at the same time as having all level 8, 9 and 10 tracks wasn't a good idea, removing all tracks with a craziness level of 5 or above is also not a good idea, because then you once again lose the variety and it becomes less interesting.

I do not make difference between tracks by craziness, but by stupidity; there are stupid ones, and good ones. But I tried to use your word "crazy" to be more polite. ID-Random is not crazy for grade 10, it's just stupid.

iBlaze² wrote:The thing is with full contact - you should never take it seriously. The whole idea of it is for it to be funny and the funny tracks help that. In fact, in this server you should probably remove points because the only winner there is he who has the most fun (that's not a serious suggestion btw, it's an example).

It's sad to see you writing this. This kind of approach already ruined whole fun about Full C. Competition is the only reason why all players are visiting the server again. Personally, playing for points is the funniest thing for me there. Tight battle for the points makes all sense about playing there all again and again. Track makers ruin that fun with their tracks where you can't earn points by your driving.

iBlaze² wrote:To put it simply, you've complained about the completely crazy tracks - ID_Random for example - and we've removed them. You've complained about the long tracks and we've removed them. You've complained about poor quality tracks and we've removed them.

I already said, I complained about the stupid tracks only. I guess we both make big text for nothing again. We still can't understand one another. :)

iBlaze² wrote:As Janne said, we can't please everybody, but we've gone a long way towards pleasing you so you should let us keep some of the tracks that we find funny too.

I don't speak here for my self. I played lot of races there and I'm saying what I still find wrong there. Some new players are just confused by some tracks. They drive backwards all the time and make other players mad.
Maybe you think that arrows help, but it just confuses people more. You can clearly see that when you are playing, especially with more players.

iBlaze² wrote:(Sorry for the essay, but there were a lot of points I felt needed discussing here and I hope you can understand our point of view like we have understood yours.)

Next time, please, use whole minute for making a new track. Then It will be ok I guess. :P :)

Jan wrote:Basically, more craziness = more fun. (By craziness I mean somehow "controlled" craziness. Not pointless bouncing for example. At least not too much. :P)

I agree with all that. But don't forget that it's better when all that craziness goes mainly from drivers, not from tracks. Beefing someone on stupid track is not that hard and fun.
Last edited by Whiplash on Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Whiplash
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Post by Whiplash » Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:48 pm

wooooo, look at my post. It's a novel. :D

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Whiplash
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Post by Whiplash » Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:52 am


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