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IDeaa for f1

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mjay

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IDeaa for f1

PostFri Feb 10, 2012 12:37 am

here is an idea for f1(or all types of racing) so you know how in f1 real life there times for fastest segment well how about doing that having times to see who are fastest on each segment of the track then they'll have a line drawn to represent 1 segment of the track because i see that on alot of f1 games
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shyguy1001

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PostFri Feb 10, 2012 12:57 am

And how do you suppose we do this within the turbosliders game engine?

The only thing that could come close is, now I am considering what to show next on SlidersTV once F1 Race 10 video is out, doing rally with timechecks according to the timing included on the recording. But it's not possible in game.
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mjay

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PostFri Feb 10, 2012 1:41 am

well i suggested it be done either way but what if you use the lines u have to make the track with check points surely ya'll can create something to time between the checkpoints. It will be a good idea to record a qualyfieng doing th check points because it will be to complicated in races






-horrible typer :o
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GR8Arjen

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PostFri Feb 10, 2012 6:49 am

Not a new idea, I suggested it many times before. 3 sector times for each lap so you can see were you win/loose time. It would be awsome if ever implemented.

Also a cool addition would be a simple speedomitor. So you can see how fast you realy go on the straights. Heck if that could be done, then that will open doors for more nice stats. Highest topspeed and stuff.

And if we take it one more nutch further, how about wing settings for the cars... This would probably mean in reality, that we need to make 4/5 new F1 cars... all with slightly modified setups.
It would be cool if you could choose one of the 4/5 setups before a race, because you think it suits your driving style or tactics the best.

(Those 4/5 setups would be a mixture of acceleration vs less downforce / griplevel.)

Damn, it is proven,,,, The toilet is the best place to brainstorm! :D
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mjay

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PostFri Feb 10, 2012 11:42 am

lol new f1 cars you can choose from i was thinking about that to il do it myself but i suck at making cars....
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dede

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PostFri Feb 10, 2012 12:45 pm

GR8Arjen wrote:It would be cool if you could choose one of the 4/5 setups before a race, because you think it suits your driving style or tactics the best.


This is something that is in my mind since about 1 year. Before last F1 League I thought about having something like this:

- F1 League with announced tracks (released before the cup)
- Each team can develop its own car (or pick a car between 3/4 versions) and keep it throughout the whole season
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Mike Nike

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PostFri Feb 10, 2012 12:57 pm

well...a possibility could be to build a track with a style that 1 lap equals 2-10 turbosliderslaps and going the wrong way wouldnt be beneficial for any kind of car or impossible due to trackparts.
and a script would summarize for example lap 1 to 5 as lap 1 and lap 6 to 10 as lap 2 etc.
during race, unfortunately, fastest lap displayed would be the fastest sectortime. which might be bad for people who fight for the pole, maybe. not too bad though.
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Lanz

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PostFri Feb 10, 2012 1:21 pm

dede wrote:- F1 League with announced tracks (released before the cup)
- Each team can develop its own car (or pick a car between 3/4 versions) and keep it throughout the whole season


seems epic idea! but i would prefer to have at least 1 update for the car like in reality! would be shitty if you choose the wrong car for you in the beginning and then you have to keep it thru out the whole season! maybe after half of the season you can choose if your car needs a update! :lol:
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Whiplash

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PostFri Feb 10, 2012 3:11 pm

All this reminded me on one old dede's idea:
Lets beg Ande to give us game source. :!:
That lazy bitch will never make any improvement to this version. :) Now he's always talking only about 3D version, and never about turning 2D to the next level. So there is no any reason why he wouldn't make 2D source open.
Once he said that he's afraid of cheating, but that one is pretty bad one since T is already able to do it. :)
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dede

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PostFri Feb 10, 2012 6:17 pm

Whiplash wrote:Lets beg Ande to give us game source.

I believe we can obtain this quite easily, but the point is to find a programmer willing to continue the developing. Without any serious project behind it, I would prefer not to have the sources released ever.
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shyguy1001

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PostFri Feb 10, 2012 11:09 pm

dede wrote:
GR8Arjen wrote:It would be cool if you could choose one of the 4/5 setups before a race, because you think it suits your driving style or tactics the best.


This is something that is in my mind since about 1 year. Before last F1 League I thought about having something like this:

- F1 League with announced tracks (released before the cup)
- Each team can develop its own car (or pick a car between 3/4 versions) and keep it throughout the whole season


Etmil was talking about this :D I think a mix of about 8 released tracks 4 new tracks each season would be great. As for developing own car, seems interesting, you could develop a systen of "points", and each point can be used on the various car settings. A point would mean x amounts of grip and x amounts of accel for instance, and it would be made sure that it was fair. Could allow for interesting battles with total fast cars through corners that are total patetic on the straights!
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Lexx

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PostFri Feb 10, 2012 11:22 pm

I think you won't be able to balance this fairly. Either 1 car will be overpowered on certain tracks or the difference is almost not noticeable at all.
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mjay

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PostMon Feb 13, 2012 12:30 am

the point is with the cars if a car ia better on one track than other cars isn't that how it is in reality some cars are bette ron one trsack so itsa hit or miss situation t oget your car perfect before the season and the people with no team get the reagular all-around car which will be in the competition steadily :D


-like were this topic going
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GR8Arjen

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PostMon Feb 13, 2012 3:11 am

-like were this topic going


Me too! 8)

-----


If we have to choose between setups or "development" I would go for setup. But... Now I think about it... How about combining both. ;)

I realy like Shyguy's idea, and I think it would be cool, that each team/independant can develop/ choose car setup based on points:

For instance... A perfect car would be:

Acceleration : *****
Top Speed : *****
Grip : *****
Brakes : *****

(20 stars total)


But let's just use... a 14 stars combination (which is free to choose) for each setup.

So for instance, People would likely go for a setup like this on a fast track with some chicanes:

Acceleration : ****
Top Speed : *****
Grip : **
Brakes : ***


Or if we say yes development... Choose 10 stars for the setup for race 1 and then add one star every 2nd race till a max of 14 on race 10

So in race 1-2, every driver can choose a car with all setup combinations that have 10 stars, race 3-4, all setup combinations with 11 stars, race 5-6 we can select all 12 star combinations, race 7-8 we can have 13 star combinations, and race 9-10 we can have 14 star combinations.

This system would be awesome, But it would mean lots of new cars that should be made. (all cars with different combinations between 10-14 stars should be made)

But if the car developers can figure out how to convert the star settings easy into the Turboslider settings of the car, it should be able to be done quite easy I hope.


What makes this cool, and most importantly... work with unreleased tracks!


In order to have this work with unreleased tracks, the map layout (picture) of the track should be given prior to the race, so the teams/independants athleast know what kind of track it is. (so they will not drive on it, but can see the characteristics ("long straights" - top speed, "many slow corners" - grip and acceleration, "hairpins" - brakes, etc.)

With this information, teams/independants can do testing in private on "simular tracks" to figure out, what they think is the best setup for the next race. (I would prefer if each team member can choose it's own setup/car though so they all can go on different tactics aswell)


So what to be done?

1) Read my post 5 times so you understand what I mean! ;) :D
2) Choose if we go for:
option A Fixed 14 star setups for race 1-10 or...
option B For development setups throughout the season which would mean:
-10 stars cars available for race 1-2
-11 stars cars available for race 3-4
-12 stars cars available for race 5-6
-13 stars cars available for race 7-8
-14 stars cars available for race 9-10

3) Convert and build cars for all star combinations "required." (Total amount of different cars available each race depends on which option (A or B) is chosen.)

(With option B: During race day, only the correct cars are available on the server, so for race 5, only 12 star cars to pick from to avoid a mess)

Why is this cool again?

- Teams/independants will see track map in advance, so can practice a bit on simular tracks. (no more wanking track discussion lol)
- Different set-ups to be picked from for EACH RACE!, so much more overtaking!
- More F1 realism experience!
- Not hard to implement, only need lots of new cars.
(New cars should not be hard/ or time consuming to make if the formula for correct conversion to stars is found)


Conclusion

If you need help, or a strong drink after reading the above post because it is mindblowing and confusing? Then ask for help and get that drink! :P :D



PS,

I would love to see teams running with same colours, or athleast have people stick to there car colour from start to finish of the season. So you can easy remember / know who your driving against.

(Team colours don't not have to be entirely the same, a differend colored part could make it more easy to identify the team members) (team A: white car, with 4 different colours back section of the car, team B: Yellow car with 4 different colours back section of the car etc.)
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Etmil

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PostMon Feb 13, 2012 8:35 am

I suggest the following: each team has 2-3 members with their own colour settings/livery that they keep for the whole season. Each team develops their own car according to restricted settings. And possibly, as we go race by race, we could have development as well so that we get 'more stars' to develop our car with after every 2 races or so.

Setups would be a bit too much, I think. Even the development thing is quite an advanced thing.. so to keep it simple, but at the same time still add something, we should just allow each team build their own car according to some restricted settings so you wouldn't be able to max everything out, but each of the characteristics of your car (speed, acceleration, grip, brakes etc.) would play out differently on every circuit.

PS. I am still a strong supporter of un-released tracks. I don't get where the whining comes from. This season, it seemed that we had like 2-3 tracks that weren't even used. Some of them very pretty damn good, I can assure you. So if none of you wants to keep making them, I will take it upon myself. After all, most of the work on a track is done in the editor decorating it (to make it beautiful to look at!), after you've drawn the layout etc in Photoshop, which is really quite easy when you've got the know-how and skills.

But to make it drivable, you really just need the layout from PS, then import it to the editor, have grass everywhere, some random sand to the inside and outside of corners (doesn't need to look good, it just needs to be there), then obstacles not too close to the track, checkpoints and there you go. Right now we have quite a strong trackmaking team (Eddie, dede, Etmil, lanz, lux) so if we just keep at it the way we did for this season, everybody would only need to make 2 tracks, which isn't that hard, really.. also another idea would be to hook up and work on a single track all together for each race. One of us would create the shape, the other would do startpoints + grid + checkpoints, someone would do the scenery, someone would do decorations (houses, forests, grandstands and whatever). And for the next race, we could change roles.. would be more interesting for all of us + less work for each. Because unreleased tracks am best!
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GR8Arjen

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PostMon Feb 13, 2012 9:35 am

So Etmil, If I read it good, you want to have the teams to build there own cars instead of my star system that would be regulated by FIA DEDE?

I would like that aswell ;)

Just have max stars/ stats /points to be devided on the points like I previously said: Top speed, Acceleration, Grip, Brakes.
Every race teams can alter the car acording to the points given which they deside to devide over the 4 characteristics points.

- This saves a lot of cars to be build by the organisation
- Teams test a lot to get there car cool

Downside though

- no individual setups

Normal:

- Every team uploads his car prior for race, FIA DEDE (Federation Internationale de l'Automobile Don't Even Do Epic!) can check if car is legal (max nr of stars / points etc.) in car characteristics.


So,, If we have unreleased races, we would get a map of the track (1 week) before the race, so we can test on simular tracks, and we can develop as a team during test sessions, the best car for each race!
We all upload our cars before we begin, and then race!

This would be so awsome!

Important:

Prior to a race: I think Independants should be able to "rent" for 1$ a car of a team they fancy. So incase they don't want to test and get there own car in, they can choose a car of the teams. They never drove it in test sessions, but a good gues... can make an idependant a good candidate for the win! ;)
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Etmil

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PostMon Feb 13, 2012 10:28 am

Yes every team would still build their car according to FIA DEDE regulations / star system / whatever.

Independents should team up, or become ineligible for racing in the league.

Individual setups would be too crazy I think, besides we have some of that with the fuel / tyre wear settings, providing the necessary individuality..

Easiest would be to implement a star / points system, so teams could build their car. One team's car might be better in Monza type of tracks, others could be a little better in twisty circuits etc. We have some tests before season to try them out. Then season starts. Some teams will have an advantage on some tracks as I said, but on others would thus have a disadvantage and vice versa. There would be no in-season development, cause of the crazy amount of new 'cars' that would be built and then we would need to download everybody's new 'setups' again and again.. too much, I think.

But a simple variety in all teams cars could be good, I think. Question is: who would implement a balanced star / points system / regulations so that the characteristics would be enough to play out on circuits but still be even as well? And do all participants in the league agree on doing this at all? :D
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JonnO

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PostMon Feb 13, 2012 10:46 am

GR8Arjen wrote:3) Convert and build cars for all star combinations "required."

For every combination there would be sooo many cars! Each team or individual could create their own car with a certain amount of points and send it in. Would require some time for "FIA Dede" to check them, but would save many many cars being built!

GR8Arjen wrote:option B For development setups throughout the season which would mean:
-10 stars cars available for race 1-2
-11 stars cars available for race 3-4
-12 stars cars available for race 5-6
-13 stars cars available for race 7-8
-14 stars cars available for race 9-10

Hmm, I think it could be better to stay with 1 car for the season, would require many new cars being built and uploaded/downloaded, could take some time before the races and again "FIA Dede" would need to have time free to look at them. Nice idea though. 8)

Etmil wrote:I suggest the following: each team has 2-3 members with their own colour settings/livery that they keep for the whole season.

I thought this too! I've kept the same car ever since I started, pink and bright blue! :D Different to everyone and easy to see me coming ;) .... or lagging into a bush. But team colours would be pretty nice.

Etmil wrote:Right now we have quite a strong trackmaking team (Eddie, dede, Etmil, lanz, lux)

Ahua! Maybe if i become a trackmaker i will also finish top4 every race too... :lol:
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GR8Arjen

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PostMon Feb 13, 2012 10:58 am

Etmil wrote:Yes every team would still build their car according to FIA DEDE regulations / star system / whatever.


Agree!

Independents should team up, or become ineligible for racing in the league.


So people that join in, and are teamless, can't drive.. I have to disagree.

I would love them to choose for a chassis of all the teams, so they can join in, the more players the better, and who knows, indepedents can form teams after good first experiences in the league. ;)

Individual setups would be too crazy I think, besides we have some of that with the fuel / tyre wear settings, providing the necessary individuality..


I signed off for now on individual setups, although I would prefer them.

Easiest would be to implement a star / points system, so teams could build their car. One team's car might be better in Monza type of tracks, others could be a little better in twisty circuits etc. We have some tests before season to try them out. Then season starts. Some teams will have an advantage on some tracks as I said, but on others would thus have a disadvantage and vice versa. There would be no in-season development, cause of the crazy amount of new 'cars' that would be built and then we would need to download everybody's new 'setups' again and again.. too much, I think.


I strongly disagree! Lanz already pointed this out. A bad choice of car devolpment could ruin your season! Why not have it done race by race.

Multiple cars, yes.. .Say 20 teams, is 20 files of 200kb or less for the cars... in 40 seconds we have all the files we need each race. It's realy not an isue. FIA-DEDE needs to check them for cheeting in there stats, say that costs 2- 3 mins. Woohoo, after that were rolling!

In other words!, We could easy do "development" through out the season!
And send in cars whenever we want, aslong as we stick to the rules! (if teams are happy with there current car they won't sent in a new car btw)

Vital thing is the testing that is required for each race to get your "new" car ready for next race track. (as said, unreleased track, so map required so you can test on simular looking tracks)

This makes the team aspect so much more important, which makes the league more interesting! ;)

But a simple variety in all teams cars could be good, I think. Question is: who would implement a balanced star / points system / regulations so that the characteristics would be enough to play out on circuits but still be even as well? And do all participants in the league agree on doing this at all? :D


I hope Our brainstroming here attracts and feeds other minds with our ideers, and things of the above happens in next season. That's all I can dream for, since I have no power to implement anything.

Looking forward to all that passes the benchmark!
Last edited by GR8Arjen on Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Del

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PostMon Feb 13, 2012 10:59 am

The current stats are:
Code: Select all
  acceleration 89
  enginefriction 0.0
  viscosity 0.25
  nonslidesector 0.4
  slidebraking 40
  slidedeceleration 40
  braking 118
  steering 1.84
  elasticity 0.5
  grip 240

If you decided to keep enginefriction, nonslidesector, slidebraking/deceleration, steering and elasticity fixed and rounded the remaning values you would have like so:
Code: Select all
acceleration 90
viscosity 0.25
braking 120
grip 240

As lower viscosity is better you would set a default value (0.5 or 1.0 or something) from where you decrease the value.

Then you set a maximum limit of points you can use and start adding up the cost of points. Every point you put in grip would have a coefficient of 1. Every point you put in braking would have a coefficient of 2. Every point you put in acceleration would have a coefficient of 2 2/3. Every point you deduct from 0.5 (or x) viscosity would have a coefficient of 960 (or 240/(x-0.25)). The current car 960 points.
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GR8Arjen

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PostMon Feb 13, 2012 11:11 am

So this means... Del could be usefull for the FUN team for setups... :D ;)
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dede

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PostMon Feb 13, 2012 12:44 pm

Different car setup -> different drivability -> different speed in curves -> more contacts?? -> more rough??

Apart from this, developing the car throughout whole season is bad.. too much work for me to check/upload etc.. Too many transfers in server as well.

Another option would be to make e.g. 3 different cars and each player has to use them at least e.g. 2 times.
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shyguy1001

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PostMon Feb 13, 2012 2:11 pm

All the car stuff might be a bit much for me looking at it. I would like about 4 more races in the cup, perhaps 15 races and 3 drops. I agree with Dede different straight speeds and cornering speeds could easily result in more rough. But then again it could also result in more great battles with even more passing and repassing.. but what I say to that is, look at some of the races from this season.. pretty awesome.. don't fix what ain't broke.

So my "perfect" F1 season would be:

15 Races, 3 drops
10-11 released tracks (with improvements possibly if there were problems), 4-5 unreleased tracks
Qualifying with the pre qualifying system used this cup
Car.. hmmm for me I would probably prefer just the TSE-F1
And of course all race videos on SlidersTV ;) But if the cup starts too early, that might not be possible cos I really really need a break from full race videos :D Also uploading them in parts is depressing me. We really need to find an alternative site.
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Jan

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PostMon Feb 13, 2012 3:45 pm

Well my only contribution to this thread. Whatever the final decision is, in my opinion the most important thing is to keep it so simple that the players don't need to think about the cup until the race. Otherwise it takes too much time and commitment that I at least will stick to casual punaball and full contact. :P If you ask me we could scrap the whole F1 and race with sliding cars instead as they provide better racing and it's easier for lower skilled players too as you don't need to fear being accused of rough racing just because you brake a bit late in a corner. Quite few people share my opinion nowadays though so this is quite an useless post and maybe a bit off-topic. So sorry about that. :P

My point is though: More lighthearted arcade racing cups with sliding cars. Less serious realistic non-sliding cups. If people prefer the latter one though, maybe I should forget the organised cups in this game.
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shyguy1001

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PostMon Feb 13, 2012 4:15 pm

I love both - but I also love making race videos, and I can only do that for seriousISH cups so :D And I don't think F1 is TOO serious, when you see the Race 10 intro maybe you will understand ;)
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