Turbo Sliders - New Version

Discussion related to Turbo Sliders and beta version feedback.

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Lanz
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Post by Lanz » Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:17 pm

power79 wrote: Maybe I create some AI-lines and put AI drivers on my autoserver. So Lanz doesn't have any excuse not to drive just because he's alone :wink:
:lol:
power79 wrote:Another thing that bothers me. I hope someone could explain.
- If i create tracks with 1000x or 1500x size it shows them in normal size when racing. But if I make like 1900x or 2000x track then tile and car sizes get smaller on my screen with same zoom. But if I drive those tracks with F1SL mod then sizes seems to be normal with 2000x tracks. How to I get it to work correctly with default game?
i would like to give you the answear but i totally have no clue why you have this problem! i never experienced that problem!

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Post by Ande » Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:49 am

Hello "again"!

Quick update about what is going on. I have gone through all kinds of feature requests you have made. Some of them are easy, some are not. The feature list of the game is already very big and anything new doesn't add that much to what's already there. *IF* I manage to publish a new version of the game, the main reason for me is to update the default graphics settings to work for as many as possible, and to change the old BUY pages etc. What community could do is to release new content packs which would have proper installers to install the essential community tracks and/or cars in an easy way.

Unfortunately, I still can't give any promises or dates. I have made some minor changes to the code already but I am extremely busy with work and everything else in my life. I hope to publish something at some point, but don't expect it to be anything groundbreaking. I would like to properly bring the game to 2010s but it would be too big a job.

Anyway, to give a hint of what to expect, I can tell you that I have already done some minor changes. I am still considering something bigger like tyre wear or drafting but I am still unsure if that is worth the effort. Some things would in theory be easy but the real problem is all the consequences. For example, it was one-line change for me to experiment driving against 99 AI bots but the real problem is the old tracks getting broken, drastic network bandwith requirement changes, HUDs being too small etc.

Anyway, this is what I have already done - nothing major, but something to keep my fingers occupied with my very limited free time:

- Track maximum size to 4000 by default.
- Added car parameter 'rotations' (min 64, max 360). Max image width is 16384.
- Added GhostAlphaMode to sliders.ini, values 0-6, default: 3, (0 = invisible)
- Added command /listtracks <part_of_name>
- Added command /mute <player> <time_in_sec> (use 0 to unmute)
- Added command /muteall [0|1] (use 1 to mute all non-admins for this cup)
- Added command /startfueladmin.
- ForceRaceMissiles is now public (set it to 1 to have missiles in races).
- MaxMissilesPerPlayer option now visible in help texts
- Increased the max spectator count to 40
- Added command /reloadcars [0|1], sets whether server reloads cars after cup
- Added command /sendinterval [1..20], default: 5 (to adjust server traffic)
- Added command /sayadmin <msg>, sends a message with different color
- Added command /aicar [<index> <car>], resets when a new cup is started

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Post by KiWi » Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:13 pm

good list :)
request:
Does it ll be possible to shoot with the car in puna (we can use missiles but have the ball stolen by a missile when we have succeffully passed opponents is frustating so just a bump like haxball would be good and maybe with flashing indicator when we shoot.
try the concept on haxball here:
http://www.haxball.com/

For the community pack it would be awesome:

some f1 tracks, all the puna maps ,some rally tracks and a great selection of battle/xbump maps linked together with game download so new comers can have a better view of the game...

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szymek66
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Post by szymek66 » Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:26 pm

KiWi wrote:good list :)
request:
Does it ll be possible to shoot with the car in puna (we can use missiles but have the ball stolen by a missile when we have succeffully passed opponents is frustating so just a bump like haxball would be good and maybe with flashing indicator when we shoot.
try the concept on haxball here:
http://www.haxball.com/
Nooooo, I don't agree! I feel this feature would kill whole fun I have playing puna

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Afinfas
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Post by Afinfas » Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:40 pm

To be honest guys, i think this kind of requests are a wasted shot! What i mean is that its not a priority thing! Ande does have already very few time to develop further the game so we should put away things that are not so important. Well, thats my opinion!
On NSGP we had a lot of requests and i think that put away the developer from doing whatever just cause it was simply too much and non sense requests.

Stick it to the important stuff, like better handling (rot images already implemented :D), Tire wear, gaps (time split), drafts, blue flags, better disposition of info on screen with bigger letters (custom). Only this would be already a fantastic add to the already existent game!
"Dont forget to be happy!"

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Jan
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Post by Jan » Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:43 pm

KiWi wrote:good list :)
request:
Does it ll be possible to shoot with the car in puna (we can use missiles but have the ball stolen by a missile when we have succeffully passed opponents is frustating so just a bump like haxball would be good and maybe with flashing indicator when we shoot.
try the concept on haxball here:
http://www.haxball.com/
That's not needed. In punaball you use your speed as a weapon to push the ball and that's one of the main things which makes puna better than haxball. In haxball you can just sit there and you can "kick" the ball as hard as when moving full speed. Also implementing that in puna would be difficult as the ball bounces everywhere so you can't actually have the ball in control in the sense of being able to "kick" it. If it was done somehow though, attacking would be too easy as you can shoot everywhere and defending too difficult as you can't predict things by other cars' movement as they could also "kick" the ball.

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Whiplash
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Post by Whiplash » Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:15 pm

Ande wrote:The feature list of the game is already very big and anything new doesn't add that much to what's already there.
This is the only thing I don't agree with. Even a very small changes means a lot for many players - especially for the hardcore ones. Implementing any request from our wish list makes big changes actually. Even the most simple of them are the ones which frustrated players for years. :wink:

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Afinfas
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Post by Afinfas » Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:26 pm

I guess its a matter of priorities...

I prefer to have fewer changes but a new version out relatively soon then loads of them and a undetermined release time that can be 4 months to 2 years or so.
But dont interpretate that i dont want to the changes...of course im dying for them, im just not sure if Ande can do them (in terms of time of course). So i would be already happy with some "small" changes already mentioned on previous post from me here.

If Ande can promise that he will make for sure all things and takes 1 year to do it, giving a release time for it, im for it 100%. If by the other hand he says that he doesnt know if he will finish this, then i prefer an earlier version with less things implemented to make sure that a new version comes out. :) But i know everyone has a different opinion on this...i guess we have to try finding a compromise that satisfies the majority of the players! ;)
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Post by JonnO » Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:55 pm

plsplsplsplsplsplspls add some sort of text size changer! 8)

Really nice to see that progress has been made though! Niiiiiiiiice!! :lol:

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Whiplash
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Post by Whiplash » Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:06 pm

JonnO wrote:plsplsplsplsplsplspls add some sort of text size changer! 8)

Really nice to see that progress has been made though! Niiiiiiiiice!! :lol:
That's already added on THE LIST. Page 13.

or simply HERE. (direct .htm link)

Updates:
Edited:
- Missiles range and invisibility (GAMEPLAY)

Added:
- Continue to the next track if a car is not moving for >x< seconds (ADD-ONS AND NEW POSSIBILITIES)
- StartPos in racestats.log (BUGS)
- Problem with OpenGl on Windows 7 (BUGS)

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Post by KiWi » Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:57 am

Well i have tried with punamissile it's like my feature request without the possibility to shoot the ball from other side of ground.
I have found many players who like puna missiles and i don't think it'll kill the game u can again use ure speed for shooting and u can shoot without speed too it's good.

But if it's really hard or long to do i agree maybe some others features would be more important.
another feature request:
when u have the ball ,opponent haven't the right to shoot the ball until u pass the middle line.
Some players don't respect that rule so if we can't pass the middle line it would be good again like haxball do :)
Whiplash what do u mean by missiles range? (number of missiles or really missiles range so if it's possible my request for puna is useless héhé :)

Exemple of my request:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a0MQct2J0k
and i would love to see this gamemod in TS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLn8HS9TJpA

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Whiplash
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Post by Whiplash » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:54 am

Guys, I need your precious opinion on this:
How about to have "c" letter not only on laptimes where collision with another car happened, but also where collision with any obstacle happened???
That would finally solve the cheating problem on all tracks (especially on default ones). I was just wondering what bad consequences could we get from that. For example, I see that people couldn't expect to have wanking events on some fun (crazy) tracks (at least not on the way that track editors intended), but that's really unimportant - fun tracks are there primary for the FC racing, not for the wanking.
I'm sure Ande would be able to implement this in a sec, but I need you to predict if there would be any bad results of that.

My second question goes to those who are familiar with that bug of fuel consumption. I can't remember what exactly problem was there. I just know that Mike was complaining about it (what a surprise :P ), and that T managed to debug it.
Let me know If I got this well:
As I understood, the bad thing was that fuel is going down always when accelerating key is pressed - which isn't good/fair???
You wanted it to go down only if car is accelerating in fact - which is good/fair???
The reason why you complained was that your driving style is different - you're releasing the brake more rarely than the others do. In the same time you're releasing the throttle more rarely too - which consuming more fuel???

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Post by power79 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:56 am

Whiplash wrote:Guys, I need your precious opinion on this:
How about to have "c" letter not only on laptimes where collision with another car happened, but also where collision with any obstacle happened???
Not all collisions are cheat attempts, so that could disqualify some legit lap times. Specially in long rally tracks it is very normal to hit some tree/rock. I don't know how those cheats really work but maybe if "c" is marked only when collision increases car speed. Would that work? Is there other kind of collision cheats?
Let me know If I got this well:
As I understood, the bad thing was that fuel is going down always when accelerating key is pressed - which isn't good/fair???
You wanted it to go down only if car is accelerating in fact - which is good/fair???
The reason why you complained was that your driving style is different - you're releasing the brake more rarely than the others do. In the same time you're releasing the throttle more rarely too - which consuming more fuel???
I think it is simply like this: if you brake with throttle pressed your car brakes same way as without throttle but it consumes more fuel.

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Whiplash
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Post by Whiplash » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:33 am

power79 wrote:Not all collisions are cheat attempts, so that could disqualify some legit lap times. Specially in long rally tracks it is very normal to hit some tree/rock. I don't know how those cheats really work but maybe if "c" is marked only when collision increases car speed. Would that work? Is there other kind of collision cheats?
It's good you noticed the rally problem.
Btw, your suggestion isn't solving the problem, cause you're not having in mind the way of how they works. Sometimes players uses obstacles to brake better, not to accelerate. With speeder it's often much better to hit some wall in full speed and continue to race, than to brake normally.
But I'm still optimistic about this. There are few ways of how it could be fixed. For example that "c" letter could be optional solution. We could decide to activate it by some command for the certain races. Also, Ande could make a command that will slow down the car drastically for 3 secs each time you touch an obstacle etc.
power79 wrote:I think it is simply like this: if you brake with throttle pressed your car brakes same way as without throttle but it consumes more fuel.
Y, just as I said. :P But tnx for making it more clear. The reason why this is happening is that TS has no 3rd option. It can only either accelerate or either brake. I wish T could explain how this should be fixed.

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dede
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Post by dede » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:25 pm

Solving the fuel problem should be easy on Ande's part. When detecting throttle+brake, throttle shouldn't be considered. I consider this problem as a bug, since you don't benefit by pushing both keys until you release brake. Report it to ande, he might solve it quite easily.

About the collision, It might be a good point. If touching IsWall object then laptime gets "c". Ask it to ande as well. I see no particular problems on this, competitions such as rally could allow c laps in their ranking, normal records will be fine and clean otherwise.

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Post by Wokinger » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:59 pm

dede wrote:Solving the fuel problem should be easy on Ande's part. When detecting throttle+brake, throttle shouldn't be considered. I consider this problem as a bug, since you don't benefit by pushing both keys until you release brake. Report it to ande, he might solve it quite easily.
Not really. throttle+brake has also effect on Antislide parametr and I think (basing on testing) that it has also effect on other unvisible car parametrs.

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Post by power79 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:03 pm

Yeah, I really don't know much about default cars. :oops: I did play a lot of slicks n slide in the old days and remember liking those cars more than default cars in TS. Maybe I am just getting too old for this slider shit. :lol:

Perhaps there could be different letter for wall collisions? Like "w" when collision is wall object. There could be races where it would be good to identify different kind of collisions. I know that from programmer's perspective this should be really easy thing to do. Then if theres both types of collisions it could just be "c".

But doesn't really make a lot of difference to me. Just hoping Ande is doing something more than just taking sunbath on a beach. 8)

edit: And quick suggestion. Tell me if Im wrong but I couldn't found a way to show total race time during race. Only lap info. It would be nice to see race time, if not in real time then at least updated after every lap.

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Post by Whiplash » Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:03 pm

power79 wrote:Perhaps there could be different letter for wall collisions? Like "w" when collision is wall object. There could be races where it would be good to identify different kind of collisions. I know that from programmer's perspective this should be really easy thing to do. Then if theres both types of collisions it could just be "c".
Notice that we 'll probably already get new letter in next version if drafting is going to be implemented (d). With (w) we 'll have full alphabet there. :P
power79 wrote:And quick suggestion. Tell me if Im wrong but I couldn't found a way to show total race time during race. Only lap info. It would be nice to see race time, if not in real time then at least updated after every lap.
Hmm, I never thought about it actually. But that probably means it's not a big problem. I really can't see benefit of that? Cause it will be some kind of incorrect time. How can you say that you're seeing total race time if the race isn't actually over? :) You'll have the best total time if you just finish one lap. :P I really can't see the problem there. It would just make unnecessary problem for programmer.
Last edited by Whiplash on Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mike Nike
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Post by Mike Nike » Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:06 pm

i think if there would be an implementation, then it would be an additional "w" if iswall object is touched. so, a c, a w, and a 19.835cw lap is possible.

in records ingame there would be in additional filter iswallcollisionlap?
in some kinda rankings, official, cup based, admins can still decide if they exclude the c and w laps in their rankings.

but plz not group a w lap to a c lap.
also it could be good then that ts autoconverts watched videos with w-records (but not yet in rec files with w addition) to add the w in the rec file.
but that might be quite a bit to program and since this wouldnt cover all old recs, im kinda against this anyway.

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Whiplash
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Post by Whiplash » Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:14 pm

Mike Nike wrote:but plz not group a w lap to a c lap.
Why do you care about this?

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Mike Nike
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Post by Mike Nike » Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:17 pm

old c laps were supposed to count as possible cheat-laps due to the extra speed you gained from a bounce of last lap into the new lap.
if a w-lap would count as c lap as well, i wouldnt know if the w lap would be clean or not.
on the other hand there are certainly a few tracks where bouncing is intended by the author or so easily useable and so time saving that you prefer to drive it with the bounce every time..

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Whiplash
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Post by Whiplash » Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:34 pm

Mike Nike wrote:old c laps were supposed to count as possible cheat-laps due to the extra speed you gained from a bounce of last lap into the new lap.
if a w-lap would count as c lap as well, i wouldnt know if the w lap would be clean or not.
on the other hand there are certainly a few tracks where bouncing is intended by the author or so easily useable and so time saving that you prefer to drive it with the bounce every time..
Damn, it's hard to be smart here. Yeah, obstacles are sometimes made to be part of the track, and threating those laps as illegal could kill the fun sometimes. That's why this shit should be optional I guess. If we set /NoWallHitting 1, we would get "w" letter behind our laptimes when hitting the walls. Does this sound O.K.? Or you think it's better to have those laps marked by "w" always - so we can always know how some laptime is reached?

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dede
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Post by dede » Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:33 pm

Wokinger wrote: Not really. throttle+brake has also effect on Antislide parametr and I think (basing on testing) that it has also effect on other unvisible car parametrs.
Are you really sure about this? To me it looks like when braking + accelerating, car is braking only with no other effects. You'll show me what you mean when we meet next time!

About w-laps, I agree about using a different letter. It would be sufficient to configure what kind of records the server can show.

/showrecords 0 (no c-laps nor w-laps allowed)
/showrecords 1 (no c-laps but w-laps allowed - this can be used in full contact server, for example)
/showrecords 2 (c-laps and w-laps both allowed)

It should be still easy to implement, in my opinion.

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Mike Nike
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Post by Mike Nike » Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:40 pm

well, if you cant reach a certain laptime as a skilled player, at some point you get curious and wonder if your line is probably not matching the recholders one anyway. then you might brake different or search for cuts/bounces.
it woulda probably taken ages to realize the haybale bounces in forestry though. or actually..i probably tried them early but didnt manage to improve my laptime by that in the first tries and let it be..cant remember.
anyway, yeah - that could be an option /nowallhit 1 creating w laps, but that must be a static option in a trk file. as a serveroption it would create non w laps while there still was a bounce the hoster probably didnt want to happen.

at this place, a toast to jonkkis watchit and longhill :D, may the bounces keep up the fun in this great arcade game :)

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Post by Whiplash » Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:54 pm

I kinda agree with Mike. Someone could beat the rec and saying it was without the bounce. But as a wanker, you'll always be suspicious there whenever you can't see the .tsr.
Also, I already mentioned up there that letter "d" will probably be added for this purpose too (drafting). I hope 3 letters will not be too much. :)
Ande would just have to make a lot of combos be enabled/disabled:
1. c allowed
2. w allowed
3. d allowed
4. cw allowed
5. cd allowed
6. wd allowed
7. cwd allowed
8. cwd not allowed
I would like to make things more easier for Ande.
So, would you consider it still as a good solution if he just make "all allowed" and "none allowed"?

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