Videos, a good spot for TS and the community?

Discussion related to Turbo Sliders and beta version feedback.

Moderator: Forum Moderators

Don't you think that videos like this can be good spots for the game and the community?

Yes
9
43%
Yes, but at the moment is too hard to make them
5
24%
I don't know, it's hard to say
3
14%
No
4
19%
 
Total votes: 21

User avatar
dede
Community User Level: 5
Community User Level: 5
Posts: 3314
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:29 am
Location: Milan (Italy)
Contact:

Videos, a good spot for TS and the community?

Post by dede » Fri Apr 21, 2006 3:05 pm

If you have a minute, watch this:
http://www.ippon-team.com/downloads/puna_final.wmv

At the moment it's quite hard to make videos like this (you need to use at least 3-4 programs: video capture, video editor, sound editor, etc). For punaball problems start with editing the tsr recording (cause it's hard to get only good actions and goals).

Don't you think that videos like this can be good spots for the game and the community?

And, in your opinion, should TS help making videos like that?

User avatar
Ande
Game Developer
Game Developer
Posts: 487
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:43 pm

Post by Ande » Fri Apr 21, 2006 6:26 pm

That's a nice idea indeed. I believe it was lots of job to do that :).

I guess the framerate is a bit slow because of the capturing software? What software did you use by the way? I tried Fraps once with TS but for some reason, it didn't quite work with me.

I think that "pros" would use a video edit software for cutting the highlights, not the TS internal video player. After all, those programs are made for that.

But one problem is still to get a smooth capture of the whole game. I guess one solution would be if there was an option in the game to play a recording so that every frame would be saved as an image (bmp or similar). That would produce a HUGE amount of data but that could be made into a video by some encoding program. You wouldn't get audio, though. One not-so-easy but possibly working solution I have thought about would be to forward video output to an ordinary DVD recorder and then open it with a computer.

User avatar
dede
Community User Level: 5
Community User Level: 5
Posts: 3314
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:29 am
Location: Milan (Italy)
Contact:

Post by dede » Fri Apr 21, 2006 7:45 pm

Ande wrote:That's a nice idea indeed. I believe it was lots of job to do that :).
Something like two hours (I had to search softwares, download them, c*ra#@ckehehmmm them...). I think now I can do videos like that in 15/30 minutes.
Ande wrote:I guess the framerate is a bit slow because of the capturing software? What software did you use by the way? I tried Fraps once with TS but for some reason, it didn't quite work with me.
Arghhhhhh don't say THAT NAME! Fraps.. FFS! It required a Windows & an ati drivers update, and after 20 minutes it still didn't worked!!
Then I tested other softwares, but framerate was sucky with all of them (and for some of them TS was slowed down and video wasn't good then). Finally, after 40 minutes, I got a grate software: "ACA Screen Recorder 2.03". Of course I have full version :twisted:.

Ande wrote:I think that "pros" would use a video edit software for cutting the highlights, not the TS internal video player. After all, those programs are made for that.
With a video edit software you can edit video in a better way, yes, but it still requires 10 minutes in order to record all the punaball game, and then you have to edit it (then proceed with 2nd leg). I think I got the easier and fastest way.
My suggestion is to add new features to game internal video player, like normal video players (forward, rewind, fast rewind, fast forward...). It's really a pity that, after i see a good action, i have to go back to the start of the video :?.

Ande wrote:But one problem is still to get a smooth capture of the whole game. I guess one solution would be if there was an option in the game to play a recording so that every frame would be saved as an image (bmp or similar). That would produce a HUGE amount of data but that could be made into a video by some encoding program. You wouldn't get audio, though. One not-so-easy but possibly working solution I have thought about would be to forward video output to an ordinary DVD recorder and then open it with a computer.
The second idea is pretty good, but it would require a lot of time and resources. I think that my video is pretty good (it wasn't done with awesome framerate, but with that software you can manage to do it with a better framerate).

@JGG:
If you think that my video is interesting and that it could to be published somewhere, in order to help TS and this community, please feel free to do it!
Last edited by dede on Sun May 14, 2006 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

wazaari
Community User Level: 3
Community User Level: 3
Posts: 458
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:31 pm
Location: siena, Italy

Good job

Post by wazaari » Sat Apr 22, 2006 7:12 pm

Good job dede... 8)

User avatar
fasteddie399
Community User Level: 2
Community User Level: 2
Posts: 162
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:53 am
Location: Connecticut, USA

Post by fasteddie399 » Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:59 pm

yes. excellent job with that video!!!

User avatar
Mike Nike
Community User Level: 5
Community User Level: 5
Posts: 1132
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 3:11 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Post by Mike Nike » Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:40 pm

What a question :)
Of course such videos (nice one, by the way, dede :)...but damn you for cracking - i searched for hours and not less days and i still have no real satisfying tools...all legal, grrr ;)...but let us talk in msn later about ts video production) are very good, if you want to make advertising of TS...
Infact, i use in 30-40% of the cases TS videos if i want to make advertising in another racing game, i play at the moment...
10-20% Screenshots and links and the rest by nick (i met a few old TS people yet which saw my name and remembered to TS), avatar (not less people wondered about the ugly AntiSlider, i use as avatar^^ which is causing nearly each time a discussion about TS), severname (fat red Turbo Sliders.com ;)), server description (yo.mikenike.com) and account description...
After my 2 months playing that other racing game i miss some things in Turbo Sliders ^^
A key to use a horn sound ;) (not really necessary and due to sound-warp by far not senseful)
A TimeAttack game modification with a respawn key, which is setting the car to start grid 1...and holding the gas key won't mean that you cannot immediately start when the lamps go out in that case...
Well...an ingame ladder...a list of players and buddys who are online and certainly: the accounts you need for the last 2 mentioned features...

User avatar
fasteddie399
Community User Level: 2
Community User Level: 2
Posts: 162
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:53 am
Location: Connecticut, USA

Post by fasteddie399 » Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:19 am

Mike Nike wrote:in another racing game, i play at the moment...
hehe - you seem very reluctant to say the name of such game...

*I*, however, know exacltly what game you are talking about, and agree that TS could benefit greatly from some of its features. Granted, TS is not made by the team of programmers the "other game" has, and doesn't have a huge financial backing like the "other game" has, but I certainly think some of it's feature can be implemented feasibly.

:P

By the way, I've moved up to around 12,000 in the world ranking in that "other game" ;)

User avatar
Flexman
Community User Level: 2
Community User Level: 2
Posts: 242
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:18 pm
Location: Graz, Austria
Contact:

Post by Flexman » Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:17 am

Ande wrote: But one problem is still to get a smooth capture of the whole game. I guess one solution would be if there was an option in the game to play a recording so that every frame would be saved as an image
Maybe you also can use some open format like OGG Theora for recording.

WMV is not a good format, I'd prefer something like DivX or XviD. And if you can integrate it into the game maybe there are some libs for free formats (which WMV isn't).

But I think it's not much use, there are more importand things to do than integrating this. Also this is a racing game, so videos about a good and crowded race woule be more use than Punaball.

Maybe you can get the VLC team to accept turbosliders-videos as an own video format. :wink:

User avatar
Ande
Game Developer
Game Developer
Posts: 487
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:43 pm

Post by Ande » Mon May 15, 2006 8:46 pm

I did some experimenting with video making. I implemented "make screenshot of every frame" feature which I used with one of the demo videos. 2 minutes of race was then about 5 gigabytes of raw data with 640 x 480 resolution. I used VirtualDubMod to make an avi file of that (using Windows Media 9 or something like that as the encoder and 50 FPS). Then I recorded the audio by running the demo again and recording "What U hear" with Creative Wavestudio. Then, I combined the audio and video with Windows Movie Maker. If you want to check the result, it is here (I zipped it because the www server does not recognize wmv):

http://ts1.jollygoodgames.com/antti/Tur ... ll.wmv.zip

Please don't distribute the URL (I will probably take it away later) but you can distribute the video if you like. I try to upload a better quality version of the video to Google Video to see if it would work there, too.

User avatar
dede
Community User Level: 5
Community User Level: 5
Posts: 3314
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:29 am
Location: Milan (Italy)
Contact:

Post by dede » Mon May 15, 2006 9:40 pm

Seems good but seems also that you got an harder way than me :D

User avatar
Hengari
Community User Level: 3
Community User Level: 3
Posts: 462
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 5:14 pm
Location: Capital City
Contact:

Post by Hengari » Mon May 15, 2006 11:44 pm

Ande wrote:I used VirtualDubMod to make an avi file of that (using Windows Media 9 or something like that as the encoder and 50 FPS).
Of course that Windows-proprietary stuff doesn't work in Linux. Damn Windows Media 9 and wmv.
oldschool slider <3 | Hengari @ Quakenet/IRCnet
sliderpoint

User avatar
Flexman
Community User Level: 2
Community User Level: 2
Posts: 242
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:18 pm
Location: Graz, Austria
Contact:

Post by Flexman » Tue May 16, 2006 7:47 am

Hengari wrote:
Ande wrote:I used VirtualDubMod to make an avi file of that (using Windows Media 9 or something like that as the encoder and 50 FPS).
Of course that Windows-proprietary stuff doesn't work in Linux. Damn Windows Media 9 and wmv.
Yep. There is no need for using Windows Media, especially when using AVI as container. DivX is more compatible and can even be played in many DVD-Players. AFAIK you are also able to create DivX compatible Videos with the free XviD-Codec. Sound codec should be MP3.

User avatar
Ande
Game Developer
Game Developer
Posts: 487
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:43 pm

Post by Ande » Tue May 16, 2006 8:07 am

I tested several compressions and Windows Media 9 was the best in quality and size. I think I tested some divx coded, too, but it had divx watermark visible and quality was not as good. I was also not sure if it was legal to use that particular codec. But perhaps I could retry that if I find a codec that I am sure it is ok to use.

Some quality was anyway lost when using Windows Movie Maker later (I guess the main reason was that FPS was decreased from 50 to 25) and a wmv was created. But anyway, I have uploaded the video to Google Video, let's see what it looks like there if it passes the verification.

User avatar
Flexman
Community User Level: 2
Community User Level: 2
Posts: 242
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:18 pm
Location: Graz, Austria
Contact:

Post by Flexman » Tue May 16, 2006 8:16 am

Ande wrote:I tested several compressions and Windows Media 9 was the best in quality and size. I think I tested some divx coded, too, but it had divx watermark visible and quality was not as good. I was also not sure if it was legal to use that particular codec. But perhaps I could retry that if I find a codec that I am sure it is ok to use.
Windows Media is a codec that I could not recommend several reasons (incompatibility, proprietary, DRM etc.).

The rumors about DivX and being illegal come from Version 3.11, but later versions have a new source, so DivX is legal as well as XviD which even is free. You have an influence on the quality with the settings on the codec (KB/sec, 2-pass, etc.), maybe there was a bad setup?

Another free video codec is OGG Theora, I guess there should be free software for that, but it's not so common.

User avatar
Ande
Game Developer
Game Developer
Posts: 487
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:43 pm

Post by Ande » Tue May 16, 2006 8:23 am

Flexman wrote: The rumors about DivX and being illegal come from Version 3.11, but later versions have a new source, so DivX is legal as well as XviD which even is free. You have an influence on the quality with the settings on the codec (KB/sec, 2-pass, etc.), maybe there was a bad setup?

Another free video codec is OGG Theora, I guess there should be free software for that, but it's not so common.
Yes, I can try that DivX later again. I just don't have much experience with it so I don't know what exactly to install (and what to uninstall before it etc.). And one problem is that I don't think Windows Movie Maker supports any other output than wmv (at least I didn't see any other option yesterday when I tested it). So, I would need to find another program for simple editing. Any suggestions?

If someone wants to experiment with things, I can give high-quality 50 FPS Windows Media 9 AVI of the raw data, sound track as 44 KHz and the starting image which should be in the beginning. Then you could try to convert into any format you want :). (I could generate the raw data with DivX, too, if I find a good codec which gives as much quality).

User avatar
Flexman
Community User Level: 2
Community User Level: 2
Posts: 242
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:18 pm
Location: Graz, Austria
Contact:

Post by Flexman » Tue May 16, 2006 8:33 am

Ande wrote:And one problem is that I don't think Windows Movie Maker supports any other output than wmv
Well, that's exactly what Microsoft wants. They also don't want that other programs can convert their wmv in something useful, so they sue everyone who wrote a program that can... Thats another reason for not using such formats.
Ande wrote:So, I would need to find another program for simple editing. Any suggestions?
I think the free Version of DDClip should do:
http://www.softlab-nsk.com/ddclipro/free.html

XviD Codec is here:
http://www.xvidmovies.com/codec/

And you already know VirtualDub if you want to change the codec or just take a part of the video. When cutting a Video you'd usually avoid to re-encode it because it lowers the quality.

User avatar
Ande
Game Developer
Game Developer
Posts: 487
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:43 pm

Post by Ande » Tue May 16, 2006 11:21 am

Actually, Windows Media Video 9 codec should not be propietary any more, at least according to wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WMV) and playing it with Linux should also be possible.

So is there any other reason not to use WMV9 codec and Movie Maker if that is how I can make the quality best? (I will try XDiv, too :)).

User avatar
Hengari
Community User Level: 3
Community User Level: 3
Posts: 462
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 5:14 pm
Location: Capital City
Contact:

Post by Hengari » Tue May 16, 2006 12:04 pm

Ande wrote:Actually, Windows Media Video 9 codec should not be propietary any more, at least according to wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WMV) and playing it with Linux should also be possible.
There is a small gap between "should be playable" and "will play". Nowadays 32bit Linux has most of the codecs but 64bit Linux seems to be missing someting (or it needs more patching). You just have to use 32bit binaries :/
oldschool slider <3 | Hengari @ Quakenet/IRCnet
sliderpoint

User avatar
Flexman
Community User Level: 2
Community User Level: 2
Posts: 242
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:18 pm
Location: Graz, Austria
Contact:

Post by Flexman » Tue May 16, 2006 1:02 pm

Ande wrote:So is there any other reason not to use WMV9 codec
Yes. I cannot play it on my DVD-Player, while it supports DivX and XViD (like many DVD-Players do).

Then there are several ideologic reasons, you know... Microsoft suing everyone, wanting to make this as standard for DCM-Reasons etc, etc.

But you said you put it into an AVI-file. Why? And with which Audio-Codec?

User avatar
Ande
Game Developer
Game Developer
Posts: 487
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:43 pm

Post by Ande » Tue May 16, 2006 1:26 pm

This has all been very experimental and I have just tested what I can do with my tools so let's not get too ideological :).

I had 5 GB of BMP files and one 20 MB wav file which I wanted to combine and add Turbo Sliders logo and info text to the beginning. The first thing to do was to convert that 5 GB of raw data to something more easy to handle. VirtualDubMod was my choice and I tested all the compression methods I had in my machine (including some DivX, I don't know if it was a good or bad one). In my opinion, WMV9 had the best quality and the output happened to be in AVI format. WMV9 has been designed to be good with screen captures so that may be the reason.

The next job was to combine it with the sound and add the logo plus text. I had Windows Movie Maker installed on my machine (like everyone who has XP?) and it was so easy to use that I managed to do the trick quite easily. And now the output happened to be XMV (and still in WMV9). Some quality was lost (because of FPS 50->25?) but it was still quite ok. Let's see what happens when it can be seen in Google Video...

I can try those other programs later if they are easy enough to use, I have time, and the resulting quality is as good (or better).

Jeffrey
Community User Level: 3
Community User Level: 3
Posts: 432
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:57 pm
Location: Malta (Gozo)
Contact:

Post by Jeffrey » Tue May 16, 2006 3:03 pm

Try out this program from this site: geovid.com

The name of the program is Screen Vidshot

User avatar
Ande
Game Developer
Game Developer
Posts: 487
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:43 pm

Post by Ande » Wed May 17, 2006 6:35 am

The videos are now available in Google Video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 1746898211
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 4423887565

Lots of image quality was lost again (Google seems to add some kind of blur, lower resolution?) but I guess those are good enough to demonstrate what the game is about. I could continue adding other videos, too, later (like Slider race, XBumpz and Missile Battle demo). Feel free to distribute those urls if you think it can help new people learn about the game :).

User avatar
road_oktane
Community User Level: 2
Community User Level: 2
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:16 pm
Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brasil
Contact:

Post by road_oktane » Wed May 17, 2006 10:56 pm

Nice work Ande,

you may want to make a video of the race showed on this link:
http://www.turboslidersbrasil.com/f1200 ... review.htm


i can send you the track,cars and replay if you want.

Jeffrey
Community User Level: 3
Community User Level: 3
Posts: 432
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:57 pm
Location: Malta (Gozo)
Contact:

Post by Jeffrey » Wed May 17, 2006 11:04 pm

Road_Octane that would be a great idea.


Ande could you please explain in more detail how you did the video. What software and method you used?

Thanks

User avatar
Ande
Game Developer
Game Developer
Posts: 487
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:43 pm

Post by Ande » Thu May 18, 2006 6:28 am

That Bahrain video would be nice but I don't think I have enough hard disk space and time to encode a 45 lap race :). As I mentioned, about 2 minutes took 5 GB of data and encoding took something like 20 minutes. I don't know how easy / hard it would be to skip that screenshot phase and make the game generate the video automatically, that would be an easier solution...

About how I made the video, here is a quote from the previous page of this thread:
Ande wrote:I did some experimenting with video making. I implemented "make screenshot of every frame" feature which I used with one of the demo videos. 2 minutes of race was then about 5 gigabytes of raw data with 640 x 480 resolution. I used VirtualDubMod to make an avi file of that (using Windows Media 9 or something like that as the encoder and 50 FPS). Then I recorded the audio by running the demo again and recording "What U hear" with Creative Wavestudio. Then, I combined the audio and video with Windows Movie Maker. If you want to check the result, it is here (I zipped it because the www server does not recognize wmv):
That "make screenshot of every frame" feature is not in the public versions yet.

Post Reply