Suggestion for racing rankings

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mikko
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Suggestion for racing rankings

Post by mikko » Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:01 am

It would be interesting if the nice new lapwanking ranking would be accompanied with a racing ranking. By this I do not mean specially organized cups and tournaments, they should live their own life as tournament rankings, but ranking based on everyday racing. This could also have an effect of promoting online racing. The question is how to do it. I have a suggestion.

The first question is, where the racing would take place and if it is technically feasible to export the race results to ts.com. How about the community server? It would be nice to see much more action there, and being ranking server would likely do that, I think.

The next question is about point system. Timings, whether they are lap times or race times, would be poor solutions as it would shift the focus from racing to lapwanking for which we already have a ranking. Another solution would be head-to head comparisons (as suggested previously by Z), but that might be a bit tricky to do?

What I was thinking is simply to use the cup points, not in their current form, however. Currently, if one drives alone, he/she gathers the maximum points without competition. This would distort the ranking order and would not promote racing. But how about giving points on the basis of the number of competitors? So, if there is only one player, he/she will get only one point from each race. If there are, let’s say, five players, then the winner gets 5 points, the second 4 points,… and the last 1 point. And if ten players, winner gets 10 points and so on… The ranking would then be based simply on the number of points gathered, which I think would be technically relatively easy.

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dede
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Post by dede » Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:43 pm

Good idea. It would be good associating cup results to player profiles as well. So that everything will be effectively available on player profiles. About the racing ranking, I'm still not sure about the best solution. And anyway, in this case we should get some help by y4nn1ck or TheDude, since building everything from the beginning could be a lot of work.

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Post by Tijny » Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:54 pm

I like the idea too, but in my opinion head-to-head comparisons are definitely the way to go. I'm sure Z explained all of the benefits. ;)
Of course programming it is not going to be easy, but I'd be glad to lend a hand.

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olio
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Post by olio » Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:05 pm

Yup, I would vote for the head-to-head comparison too. For example drivers that start playing after year from now, wouldn't in reality have a chance to be in the top of the list ever. I don't like any kind of ranking system that gives old players some kind of advantage, just because they are old players.

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Post by dede » Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:15 pm

olio wrote:Yup, I would vote for the head-to-head comparison too. For example drivers that start playing after year from now, wouldn't in reality have a chance to be in the top of the list ever. I don't like any kind of ranking system that gives old players some kind of advantage, just because they are old players.
Oh right, I just forgot that. Maybe we can start thinking about building that ranking Z suggested.

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Post by mikko » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:39 pm

Yes, I also agree that the Z's head-to-head comparison is the best way to rank drivers. But we should also think what is technically easy and what is not. If you think the head-to-head comparisons can be made (without taking another year or two), then that is great and should be the way to go. But if it is not, we should carefully considered alternative, while not quite as good approaches.

From the point of view of what is best for TS, the ranking system I suggested has the benefit of rewarding active online racing, which is what the game clearly needs and deserves.
olio wrote:I don't like any kind of ranking system that gives old players some kind of advantage, just because they are old players.
Yes, this is a problem, but it can be gotten rid of by using ATP-type point system, where the points become vanished after a certain period of time, let's say, a year.

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olio
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Post by olio » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:54 pm

IMO year is a bit too long time in TS-life, quarters might be better. Like in industrial world, Q1...Q4. But this still as an alternative, "Z-based" ranking would be the one I'd like to see the most.

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dede
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Post by dede » Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:56 pm

I don't think we will have a racing ranking system in short times. It will require time programming and testing it. So, since we have to work on it for months, better making the best possible ranking, even if this would require x extra months.

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Post by Tijny » Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:56 pm

A small update:

With dede's approval, I put myself in charge of this project. The RaceEnd scripts are as good as finished, and the ranking system is near completion as well. I made it so that driving many races (or rather, beating many opponents) will earn you a lot of points (where better opponents will mean more points of course), although I'm not sure whether this type of ranking guarantees that the best driver will end up on top. If you have any better idea/suggestions, feel free to post them here, or contact me in some other way.

Of course there are also other things to be implemented. Next to the ranking, there will be race browsing, race details, player profiles and 1vs1 comparisons between players. Hopefully, it will be finished in a few weeks. Again, if you have any ideas, post them here!

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dede
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Post by dede » Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:38 pm

I'm also announcing that we will have another community server hoster by Philippe (we must love this guy) which will be a Racing Server (Ranking will be based on this server). The current community server will be kind of "Fun Tracks" server + cups hosting server.

The goal is to get back some activity in the TS world: the racing ranking will have more visibility and importance than the lapwanking ranking.

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Post by mikko » Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:45 pm

Great news!

In my opinion, having the best possible ranking system is not most important in the first stage. It is more important to first have some sort of system, which can then be later polished and fine-tuned based on the experience gathered from it.

I'm confident this will become a success and will promote online racing.

Starting order should be set to random, or what do you think?

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Post by dede » Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:48 pm

mikko wrote:Starting order should be set to random, or what do you think?
I guess so, yes.

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Post by dby » Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:34 pm

Hey, good work!

The greatest drivers can also race a lot and still end up in the top. ;) It's just right that dedication count IMO.

Yay, maybe I can get a track or two in the fun server?

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Post by dby » Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:41 pm

Server time for "showcasing" different mods could be nice as well, like F1 tracks, RallyCross, battle tracks etc... with auto message about where to download track packs.

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Mike Nike
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Post by Mike Nike » Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:59 pm

In case you want a more or less fresh ranking:

Just throwing an idea into the round:
Ranking includes only race data from the last x months (where x = 3 or 6 maybe) or: races driven 1 day ago count a lot more than races driven 120 days ago. So you add some weight into the race importance and count all races or you combine it: races older than 6 months dont count anymore, races 3 months ago count only 50% (if you choose constant fell of importance or exponential, both could be something to try, perhaps).

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