TS centralised website (turbosliders.com) - Features Request

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dede
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TS centralised website (turbosliders.com) - Features Request

Post by dede » Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:30 am

Ok guys, we are starting with the second part of the project. As I said, I wanted to know what do you want to see in the centralised website. Each idea will be analysed by the team who will start the project. So, list ALL your ideas!!!

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Post by Ande » Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:26 pm

Ok, lets start from something BIG that I have planned for a long time but have never had time to implement. Maybe someone else? :)

There could be a centralized statistics database which would get its data from server scripts and race stat logs. It would work so that when a server finishes a race, it sends the race stats to the database and the website could then output any kinds of statistics based on this (game server side support for this already exists if one makes an appropriate script). However, there is a *lot* of database and web work to be done for this. I know there are already some who have done something like this and might want to contribute. But it would most probably still require lots of hard work.

PS. I fixed one word in your text to make it a bit less funny :).

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Post by dede » Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:54 pm

ande wrote:There could be a centralized statistics database which would get its data from server scripts and race stat logs.
Yes, this is a good project but it will require a lot of work. TheDude already implemented a good system for his server, and I think we can apply it to some other server (punaball autoserver and playtrix servers at least). I don't know if it's a good thing receiving logs form every server. It could cause problems for statistics etc.

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Post by mikko » Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:06 pm

Two things that immediately come into mind:

1. All proposals from Z
2. Records for all tracks

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Post by Jazzyclub » Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:43 pm

and a ranking system?
example:
jazzyclub=1000pts
dede=950pts
ande=920pts

in a race if i win the race dede & ande take less % of points but if one of these player beat me the % increase...

1) jazzyclub (1000pts)
2) dede (950pts)
3) ande (920pts)
in this case jazzy take 100% of setted points, dede 90%, ande 80%

1) ande (920pts)
2) dede (950pts)
3) jazzyclub (1000pts)
in this case ande take 100% of setted points + xx% because he beat a better ranked player, dede 90% + xx% for the same thing and jazzy the normal 80%

in this way we can increase the number of the players because they try to make more points possible for the world ladder :)

PS: all this id ande implement a centralized statistics database

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Post by Jarno » Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:34 pm

First of all: This site should build together with new version of TS. So it would support new features. Like demo mode, network code and profile system. With good profile system it would be easier and better to make any statistics, ladders and records.

Supporting servers should be ptx- and terra servers because those are mostly used. There would have to be three different rankings; demo, full version and maybe punaball too. This way number of servers would decreased and more players would drive together.

You should be able to watch what is going on in server. Players names, tracks, points, chat in game etc... And by clicking your name you would see your statistic and clicking track you see track statistic etc...

Of course tracks, videos, cars, tsnews by xzeal and forum maybe.
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Post by dragonstar » Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:39 pm

Jarno wrote:forum maybe.
Why not use this forum? We all have used to this and it has worked wery well.

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Post by Jarno » Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:10 pm

dragonstar wrote:
Jarno wrote:forum maybe.
Why not use this forum? We all have used to this and it has worked wery well.
That is true. So it would be good to link this in that site. So you can go in site to forum and in forum to site.
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Post by dede » Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:23 pm

dragonstar wrote:Why not use this forum? We all have used to this and it has worked wery well.
Uhm.. I don't know if this is possible: it depends if Hatu can share members' informations and database.. but I'll speak with him.

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Post by Ande » Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:46 pm

Jarno wrote:First of all: This site should build together with new version of TS. So it would support new features. Like demo mode, network code and profile system. With good profile system it would be easier and better to make any statistics, ladders and records.
First one stupid question - what do you mean by network code as a new feature?

And unfortunately, I can't promise any radical changes in demo mode or profile system in the near future. This is not to say that the system could not be better but it is just that if you want the project to have more probability in succeeding, it should be at first designed for the current system. Of course, if there are design decisions that make it easier to possibly support game profile integration in the future, it would be good if they are taken into account.

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Post by Hengari » Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:55 pm

I don't really want to see statistic of all races that I have driven in PTX or other server. Sometimes it is nice to just drive and not to race. If all races go to players statistics so maybe players start using false-nicks more and more.

Statistics should be of some organized cups only to keep it current.
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Post by xzeal » Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:06 pm

Hengari wrote:I don't really want to see statistic of all races that I have driven in PTX or other server. Sometimes it is nice to just drive and not to race. If all races go to players statistics so maybe players start using false-nicks more and more.

Statistics should be of some organized cups only to keep it current.
well... then don't race on playtrix if you don't want to have a "real" race. Then again rest of the servers are probably empty.

Now whatw as this topic about? Ah yes. The site has to have a proper introdction for newbies and potential buyers, something to get them worked up.

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Post by Jarno » Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:19 pm

ande wrote:
Jarno wrote:First of all: This site should build together with new version of TS. So it would support new features. Like demo mode, network code and profile system. With good profile system it would be easier and better to make any statistics, ladders and records.
First one stupid question - what do you mean by network code as a new feature?
Well this was kind of theoretic suggestion to have all players around the world together in same server. :)
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Post by Mouse » Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:49 pm

dede wrote:
dragonstar wrote:Why not use this forum? We all have used to this and it has worked wery well.
Uhm.. I don't know if this is possible: it depends if Hatu can share members' informations and database.. but I'll speak with him.
Dragonstar - are you talking about moving this forum to the website?
It may not be such a bad idea to just keep the forum right here, and just put a link on the new page. It will take a lot of work to move it, when it may not be worth it.
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Post by dede » Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:05 pm

ande wrote:And unfortunately, I can't promise any radical changes in demo mode or profile system in the near future.
This is pretty a bad news for me. Why a normal player that doesn't receive money for this project is motivated enough in order to make a website like this (it will require a lot of work and months to be completed, this is for sure) and game's creator isn't motivated enough to add the features requested by the community? I know that what we ask could be a medium-big work for you, Ande, but this news is not a good way to support my crazy project (crazy = an incredible amount of hours behind a PC only for passion). Maybe TS was just an hobby for you, and now you haven't time anymore due to your work. But what about the passion? There are many guys around the world that are waiting good news from you. I know that it's easy to say these things, and I know you probably have good motivations that don't allow you to build what we requested, but, man, the passion! Passion makes people crazy. Be crazy with us! :wink:
hengari wrote:I don't really want to see statistic of all races that I have driven in PTX or other server.
Well, actually isn't a good idea implementing race statistics about PTX server: there is no sense in doing that because of car not fixed. But I think that one PTX server could become like TheDude's one (car and cup voting system etc). And the other server could remain as-is and be available for cups (like TSB's one). This server could be administred directly by cup's organizer/organizers and could be assigned automatically through a function in the website linked to the server's script.



By the way, in this topic you are being too much general: I would like to make a list of TO-DO things and I would like to receive suggestion about how to organise the structure of the website and the contents you'd like to see in it. Something like:

Website need to be organised in this way: a main page where you write all infos about the game and this and that...
I would like to see implemented this sort of service:....
In my opinion these features could bring more players to the servers....

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Post by dede » Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:12 pm

mouse wrote: Dragonstar - are you talking about moving this forum to the website?
It may not be such a bad idea to just keep the forum right here, and just put a link on the new page. It will take a lot of work to move it, when it may not be worth it.
I don't know what's the right solution at the moment, and I haven't discussed it yet with Jani nor Hatu. But why are you saying that moving this forum somewhere else will be hard? I'm not saying that I want so, but of course it won't require more than 2-3 hours. The only think I know, at the moment is that I need a TS forum like this in the new website. So if we want to maintain this forum here, then Jani/Hatu has to allow me to link the new website directly to this MySQL database, and maybe this will require also some mod to the current database's structure.

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Post by Ande » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:34 pm

dede wrote: This is pretty a bad news for me. Why a normal player that doesn't receive money for this project is motivated enough in order to make a website like this (it will require a lot of work and months to be completed, this is for sure) and game's creator isn't motivated enough to add the features requested by the community?
If I completed every feature request I have got for the game, that would keep me busy for the rest of my life. Really, even the seemingly smallest features can take lots of time to implement, test, debug, re-implement, test again, fix another thing that got broken, test, document etc., and we are definitely not talking about small features here.

I know there is a massive amount of work involved in making a site like you are planning. I am not expecting anyone to do it but I am of course happy if someone does, for the passion of it. And I am of course willing to give support if I can.
I know that what we ask could be a medium-big work for you, Ande, but this news is not a good way to support my crazy project (crazy = an incredible amount of hours behind a PC only for passion).
New demo and profile system are both much more than medium-sized tasks. First of all, one would need to define exactly what is wanted and find good rationale for that. Many people have made different kinds of contradicting suggestions but there is no general concensus about what should really be done and why.

I have several times described what potential problems there are in different kinds of demo modes. There are unsolved technical problems and I am doubtful of the real benefits for the massive amount of work I would have to put into it, not to mention that backward-compatibility would be lost and some 1.0.x players would not want to upgrade.

When talking about the profile system, it is also not very clear for me what is wanted and what it would require to implement. Always, when external servers are needed, the complexity increases a lot. In addition to that, I am not an expert on database programming and I would have to spend lots of time just to learn things before doing anything. And I don't really know how the profile system should work in LAN games etc. And of course, it would break the downward-compatibility, too. In addition to that, it would require an unknown amount of maintenance work.
Maybe TS was just an hobby for you, and now you haven't time anymore due to your work. But what about the passion?
Yes, passion is definitely what has driven me over three years in making TS and just to make it clear: it has not ended yet.

But the joy of developing a game can easily turn into a burden when the huge pile of feature requests grows and players become more demanding in their requests. Yes, there are lots of nice things that should be added but if I start promising anything or if I feel that I MUST do something because players are asking it, it just is not fun any more and I might start thinking about what I really benefit from all that stress.

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Post by dede » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:44 pm

Ok, thanks for commenting once more. I finally get the idea: TS is a small game created mainly by 1 person. TS players expect new features like in all big games, but this is making too hard to maintain by the creator of the game. What I still don't understand is: why we lost time implementing new features like fuel / xbumpz / damage, that aren't used much? Punaball was the only necessary mod, other mods maybe required a lot of work that wasn't needed (xbumpz was working fine, for example). Maybe TS community made bad request, or just put in an higher place in the to-do list these 2 things instead the demo mode. This is a pity. :cry:

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Post by Hengari » Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:21 pm

dede wrote:TS players expect new features like in all big games, but this is making too hard to maintain by the creator of the game.
Most of the request comes from a couple of players or just one and mostly the players are satisfied with the game. Ande is just too kind to stress and implement or even plan to implement all the stupid requests the players invent :)
dede wrote: What I still don't understand is: why we lost time implementing new features like fuel / xbumpz / damage, that aren't used much? Punaball was the only necessary mod, other mods maybe required a lot of work that wasn't needed (xbumpz was working fine, for example). Maybe TS community made bad request, or just put in an higher place in the to-do list these 2 things instead the demo mode.
I wouldn't say that those implemented features were bad or not needed. Although player profiles would be nice an usable they don't really bring anything new to the game.

Xbumpz was too crazy to play without the game supporting it. You could say that punaball was working fine before the support came. Also fuel is used and brings nice edge to the race. Damage is a bit hard to use in races but maybe it will find it's place.

Maybe those other features were more easy to implement than breaking the backwards compatibility with new demo or planning how to make profiles for players.
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Post by road_oktane » Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:14 am

All i can remember by now:

1)Statistics/Ranking/Records system.

2)Cup report system, that updates the players profiles with cup data and of course, the cup database of the site. (I've planed this for TSB since my original idea =~ 2005/01 but i've never got someone to do this work).

3)Players profiles related to players account on this forum, or a new forum.

[b]4)Integrate the new forum with TSB forum accounts![/b] Is that possible?

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Post by mikko » Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:23 am

Hengari wrote: Although player profiles would be nice an usable they don't really bring anything new to the game.
How many players actually need new features such as fuel for the game? Can't speak on behalf of others but I for one feel that the game itself is as good as it can be (the best one I've ever played), was that even over a year ago when I started playing. While I find the in-game development not too necessary, I would be really really pleased if the turbosliders.com would become realized. There the player profiles, statistics, etc. would bring some real additional value for the game.

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Post by Jazzyclub » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:07 am

yea yea a TS HQ but i think a little integration in-game can be good like:
1) a login system - you can login in your account directly from the game..
2) new windows - you can read some infos like ladder record direclty in-game and not necessary force to go on TS HQ
3) update you profile

and other little things...

from TS HQ you manage more information but a little support to read in-game these info are great!!

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Post by dede » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:10 am

Jazzyclub wrote:yea yea a TS HQ but i think a little integration in-game can be good like:
1) a login system - you can login in your account directly from the game..
2) new windows - you can read some infos like ladder record direclty in-game and not necessary force to go on TS HQ
3) update you profile

and other little things...

from TS HQ you manage more information but a little support to read in-game these info are great!!
We are speaking about the website only, these requests can't be done by me (in-game features should be submitted in the TS features request's topic).

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Post by dede » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:14 am

road_oktane wrote:4)Integrate the new forum with TSB forum accounts! Is that possible?
This could be a good idea, but it may cause multiple accounts (if a player is subscribed to JGG and to TSB he'll have 2 accounts). To avoid this I'd prefer including only JGG's one, if possible.

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Post by Jazzyclub » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:16 am

dede wrote:
Jazzyclub wrote:yea yea a TS HQ but i think a little integration in-game can be good like:
1) a login system - you can login in your account directly from the game..
2) new windows - you can read some infos like ladder record direclty in-game and not necessary force to go on TS HQ
3) update you profile

and other little things...

from TS HQ you manage more information but a little support to read in-game these info are great!!
We are speaking about the website only, these requests can't be done by me (in-game features should be submitted in the TS features request's topic).
yeah but is a good way to start the TS HQ project thinkin to this in-game feature so create an appropriate DB system or something else

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